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**GodWentPUNK** · 05-26-2004, 02:49 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

I'm starting on a rack setup but for only the effects processing part. You can spend a lot of money and time (at least I'm finding that out) just at this point. I figure once I'm happy with this, I'll move into the pre/power amp portion.

Good luck and keep us posted.

joe...

**prolead** · 05-26-2004, 03:49 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

The real pros of a rack setup is the versatility.Your choice of a poweramp(VHT,Mesa,Peavey,Marshall)and a pre or multiple preamps(Marshall,mesa,Kasha,Engl,and the list goes on).Then there are the effects,switchers,equalizers,power conditioners,floorboards,cabling,shock racks,etc.This is where your wallet shrinks.If you are looking for multiple type tones this may be a good option for you.Understand though for many,myself included,it is a never ending gear train.You always feel a need to add another piece because you think it will be that much more versatility.It gets to be a little bit of a headache,and troubleshooting a problem with that much gear is a royal pain.Just something to think about before you get involved.

**catzodellamarina** · 05-26-2004, 04:31 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Wanting a Mesa Rec and Marshall sound? Hmmm.. Well if money is no problem, then rack up a Triaxis AND a JMP1, into a VHT. Between the 2 of them, I've heard more positives about the Triaxis and I'd "settle" for one. Another option is the latest Line6 PodPro that can give you amp models of those sounds. I had one in a rack for a live rig and didn't like it. I guess it works well for others.

**Shawn** · 05-26-2004, 09:59 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

I am thinking the Recto pre amp into the Mesa 20/20. Any negatives? I assume I will get better sound at lower levels with a setup like this---true?

What else do I need? Tuner, eq, ?????

Please help fill in if you can.

Shawn

**prolead** · 05-26-2004, 10:12 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Shawn,if you could I wouls suggest playing through a rack setup.The Mesa 20/20 is a great poweramp but is extremely loud for it's size.I know you are looking for "that"tone at lower volumes,but to hit the sweet spot,saturation,you need to push the power amp and thus increase the volume.You can do a ton of research on your own at www.amptone.com Good luck!

**Ace** · 05-27-2004, 02:55 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

First of all you need to decide what you want the rack to do, and how much you want to spend. Mesa makes four rackmount preamps that I can think of off the top of my head, and Marshall makes them too. As for power amps and signal processing, you should decide what your needs and budget are.

**ScarredDollFace** · 05-27-2004, 04:36 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Originally posted by Shawn:
I am thinking the Recto pre amp into the Mesa 20/20. Any negatives? I assume I will get better sound at lower levels with a setup like this---true?

What else do I need? Tuner, eq, ?????

Please help fill in if you can.

Shawn

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you're really serious about great tone at low volume I'd suggest looking into one of these. SEII
I haven't try one yet, but off of what I was able to find, I was very impressed.

I think that maybe you should go with something like this:

Power Conditioner
Korg Rack Tuner
Recto Recording Pre-Amp (Mesa sound)
Power Amp W/ EL34s (Marshall sound)
Groove Tubes SEII (for lower volumes [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )
VHT Power Amp w/KT88 like the 2150 (if you want absolute control over volume)
A Good Cab (sorry, I can help you here [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] )

Good Luck!

Nick

**Shawn** · 05-27-2004, 05:11 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Finally, someone with specific suggestions!!

Why do I need two amps? Also, the Preamp I was looking at was the Recto recording pre-amp. Anyone used it?

I am confused now...which is so easily done.

Shawn

**bobvex** · 05-27-2004, 06:11 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

try this

Wireless reciever(if going wireless)
rack tuner(sabine RT-7000 series is good, but the 7100 can double as an A/B Splitter its what i have and i love it)
A)JMP-1
B)Mesa recto Preamp
effects if you need em
compressor/EQ/miscelaneous
Marshall 9200/engl 930/VHT 2-90-2/Peavy 50-50
Marshall or mesa cabs

**tmdiamond** · 05-27-2004, 06:35 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Shawn,
I've been running a full rack amp system for about 5 years and wouldn't change for anything. As has been mentioned, the Mesa Triaxis is the best programmable digital,tube preamp around. It can sound like a dual recto, Mark IIC, Mark IV, Mark I, basically any Mesa amp. The BEST power amp to use with the Triaxis is the Mesa Simul-Class 2:90 because it features power mode switching. Mesa can explain that topic on their site better than I can so check it out, it's worth it. I run a TC Electronic G-Force multi-effects unit, and I just purchased a TC Electronic 2290 delay (2 space industry standard delay and effects unit) and an Eventide H3000 D/SE Harmonizer for special effects and harmonies. Everything is controlled via a Lexicon MPXR1 midi foot controller although I am looking at changing to a Rocktron All-Access or that other board by Digital something or other. I still use floor pedals like a Boss BF-3 Flanger because I like the way they sound. I also prefer a Morley Bad Horsey or original cry baby wah. I'd like to pick up a Dunlop rack wah if I can find one. I'm not an expert on racks but I have used one live for quite a while. If you want pix of my rack system or how I have it routed, I'll be glad to take some and send them to you.
The downside of having a complicaed rack system is locating any problems. If something goes wrong you have to isolate the problem to diagnose it. I've never had a live problem so I attribute that to either good fortune or being diligent with maintenance. The other negative is cost. The Triaxis was 1400, the 2:90 was 1300, the G-Force was 1400, the Korg DTR-1 tuner was 275 or so, the TCE 2290 is a 1500+ dollar piece and the Eventide varies from probably 1200 used to 4k new. Controllers run from a couple hundred for a Behringer to 350+ for the Lexi to over a grand for the big boys. Cables aint cheap either and you cannot skimp and buy the cheap ones or that's what you're going to sound like....cheap. 500 bucks for cables. Before long, you can break 10k just for the stuff in the rack. That doesn't consider your cabs; I use Mesa 4X12 Rectos or 2X12 rectos.
Good news is that to have a great sounding rack system, you don't have to use ultra high end stuff like these. A friend of mine used to run a Marshall JMP-1 preamp (it was gold and had a digi display, IIRC), a Carvin sereo power amp, and a multi effects unit like the TCE G-Major. He ran a Carvin 4X12 cab and his rig sounded most excellent. I'll bet his whole setup was 1500-1800.
Try out preamps and see which ones you like. Remember that tubes can get expensive. To retube my whole rig last year cost me $208 in tubes alone becasue the 2:90 power amp and the Triaxis both have a crapload of tubes.
Let me know if I can help in any way.
Tom

**Shawn** · 05-27-2004, 11:31 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Wow, tons of help, I am in awe...I love this place. Her is what I am thinking:

Mesa Recto recording preamp
Mesa 2:50 stereo amp
Tuner of some sort (recommend?)
Rocktron xpression effects
EQ (recommend?)

I think the main reason I am doing this is so I can get really controllable soundwise levels (home use, but not bedroom, my house is 4200 s.f) Is that a viable statement?

Shawn

**ScarredDollFace** · 05-28-2004, 12:19 AM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

Originally posted by Shawn:
Why do I need two amps?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I assume your talking about the 2 power amps that I posted and my answer is: Go the to Groove Tubes website ( I posted the link above) and read about the SEII ( download the manual too). I think that you will be amazed.

For the second power amp, I suggested a power amp with KT88 tubes because you would have to crank the power amp over 8 or 9 before it would overdrive (It's a super clean amp). You don't have to get a second power amp, it's an option with a SEII in the mix if you want to get perfect control over TONE and VOLUME. You would use the first power amp for TONE and the second power amp for VOLUME. The SEII will take the signal out of your first power, and if you wanted it to, turn it completely back into a line level signal (the same kind of signal that come out of your preamp).

I hope this helps and remember read about the SEII

Nick

**VanOsbourne** · 05-28-2004, 01:06 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

If you are considering a Mesa Boogie 50/50
Check It Out

**tmdiamond** · 05-28-2004, 03:04 PM

Re: Rack assistance--Need some mentoring

The 50/50 is a nice choice. Another option in the effects department would be the Digitech GSP2101 or higher. The thing is, it also acts as a preamp and actually uses a 12ax7 tube or two. The effects are very, very good and if using the 2101 with my Triaxis didn't present a problem, I may still be using that Digitech unit today. You can find a 2101 for really decent prices and, if you used one, you could eliminate the need for a preamp and just buy a power amp.
Just an idea.
Tom

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