loss of tone

[Fragle]

hi all

i've got a prob with my amp. it seems to loose a lot of its brutality and starts to sound way more fizzy and fuzzy than before......i suppose i've got to change the tubes (they havent been changed for a year or so). i cant tell you if its loosing volume because i'm not turning it up that much [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

so guys, do you think its because of the older tubes or maybe its something different?

greets
fragle

[eaeolian]

Re: loss of tone

It sounds like tubes are a good place to start.

[DJROBA]

Re: loss of tone

I agree. Try the preamp tubes 1st. I always replace all of them at the same time, but that can get to be expensive.

[Fragle]

Re: loss of tone

ok, it really seems like i've got to change the tubes because i just played it out a bit louder and noticed that they are microphonic.....

im a tube greenhorn, so can anyone give me advice which brand to use? i want to change the output tubes to el34s, and i'm not sure but i think i'll replace the preamp tubes with the stock 12ax7....although i'm basically boosting it all the time with a tubescreamer or similar so i dont need as much gain as those tubes provide (even without the booster both gains @ 10 is WAY too much, because its buzzy as hell and turns to mud. so i wouldnt mind having some less gain tubes.
but which brand(s) do you recommend? tesla? sovtek? svetlana? whatever? [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
fortunately its just a 50w amp and therefore just has 2 output tubes....and 4 in the preamp. at least its not THAT pricey to change em
greets
fragle

[Chuckracer]

Re: loss of tone

Read the sticky, "Different tubes, different tones" by Twisteramps at the top of this page. It should help a lot.

[Fragle]

Re: loss of tone

i cant count the times i've read through this [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

but it doesnt say anything about the sound differences of different brands....well, i guess for example tesla tubes sound different than sovtek ones.....or not?

greets
fragle

[DJROBA]

Re: loss of tone

Use groove tubes for the preamp. I've always gone with groove tubes for the power tubes as well, but some people use other brands. the 6550's are pretty descent.

[Chuckracer]

Re: loss of tone

OK, first off, what amp are we talking about here? What are the stock output tubes?
As far as Groove tubes, there are several types of 12AX7s to choose from.
Yes, different brands of tubes sound different, but depending on the amp in question, and your ears and what you want to hear, what sounds "X" way to some will sound "Y" way to others. There is no way to make sweeping statments
like "Tesla's sound this way" or" Svetlalnas sound that way". You will have to expirement.

Here's my 2 cents: I like Chinese preamp tubes in the first position, and Electro Harmonix in the rest.

For output tubes, unless you amp has a switch for different tubes on the back panel, changing the type will involve mods and bench time. Its not all that involved, but it will cost a little money, so thats not a step to be taken lightly in case you hate the change!

[Fragle]

Re: loss of tone

its a laney gh50l. stock tubes are 12ax7 in the preamp and 5881 in the poweramp....dont know which brand (bought it used). at the moment i think there are sovteks in the poweramp, dont know what brand is in the preamp.

it HAS a el34/5881 bias switch at the back, so switching them shouldnt be more effort than changing them to some other 6l6 tubes....so just biasing (if i had a clue about that i'd change the tubes myself).

concerning the "what i want to hear" question: basically, i'm looking for some darker sounding tubes (may sound strange considering that im changing the output tubes to el34, but thats because i like a emphasis on upper mids and dont need as much treble and bass as 6l6 provide) than the stock ones.

i've been told that groove(pre and poweramp)tubes work quite well with this amp, but i also heard people saying they are crap and all i need is to swap them for svetlana power- and sovtek preamp tubes..... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )

greets
fragle

[Chuckracer]

Re: loss of tone

Sounds like you're on the right track. Groove Tubes sells many different brands of tubes but they don't MAKE tubes. All are tested and carefully matched and labeled with the GT logo, but they are the same manufacture as Svetlana, Sovtek, etc. GT dosent make the tubes, therefore how can they suck but the other brands are good? Makes no sense.
Anyhoo, look thru the Groove Tubes online site for some explanations of the different EL34s and 12AX7s and see if that helps.
The EL34/6L6 switch is a cool feature, and you won't have to do anything but plug them in and switch it. Purists will scream that you should always have the bias fine tuned by a tech, and I suppose technically they are right, but...just run with it.

FWIW, I think Svetlana makes excellent power tubes, but I hate Sovtek preamp tubes. Go with Chinese or EH pre's. JMO!

[Fragle]

Re: loss of tone

Originally posted by Chuckracer:

The EL34/6L6 switch is a cool feature, and you won't have to do anything but plug them in and switch it. Purists will scream that you should always have the bias fine tuned by a tech, and I suppose technically they are right, but...just run with it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">so you're saying that i CAN do it myself? well, i know how to change them, and i know preamp tubes dont need to be biased (afaik they bias theirselves or something), but i always thought you HAVE to adjust the bias if you change your power tubes, regardless of the type. actually, i asked that in the my review of this head at this board and someone here told me the same thing.....i have to adjust the bias. strange...

greets
fragle

[Chuckracer]

Re: loss of tone

Well, again, techincally they're right, you should have the bias set with every tube change. I wonder how many people actually do that. I don't! It's close enough to run with. We're supposed to set intonation with every string change, too. Yeah, right. Do you suppose working pros (until recently, me) drop the amp off to have the bias set with each tube change? NO! You slap in new tubes and go. There isn't time for that stuff!
Us gear heads tend to get way too anal about this stuff. I remember reading a Jeff Beck interview and he was talking about his favorite old Marshall 50 watt head, and he said the tubes were so old they were rusted into the sockets!

If you want to get it biased, do so. But you don't HAVE to. Just flip the switch, plug in the EL34s and rip it up.

[Chuckracer]

Re: loss of tone

It's totally up to you, Fragle. I'm giving advice based on years of experience with modded Marshalls, Mesas, Soldanos, Riveras...you name it. The guy writing the article is not wrong, and I'm not saying NOT to do it...Jeez, ya know what? You better get the amp biased or it will explode with the new tubes and kill your neighbors dog in the process.
There. Now everybody's happy. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[little0x]

Re: loss of tone

Im not happy now..Im sad..How many times have you killed your neighbors dog?! [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]


Ox

[Chuckracer]

Re: loss of tone

If the silly bastard wouldn't keep buying dogs, it would have been once!
Not my fault, I tell ya!!