So what's the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

[The Chase]

Well, don't tell me that 100w is twice as loud [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
But really. I'd like to know which one distorts better, cuz I want HM distortion. I know Yngwie was using 80's 50W Marshalls and his sound is youite nice (never mind the playing) [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Also, if you want more distortion you are likely to use a stomp box. I've heard, it's not so good when you use this plus drive your amp so that IT naturally produces some of it, too. So, you are likely to use clean on amp + the damn box. Hence, where does the valve advantage come? YOu could just plug your stomp into a solid state and...? Can you explain that to me, please?
I've been living in a wild country for 6 years, using a wild piece of... well, it was a Champ 30... Thanks for responses

[zeegler]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

If you were to take two tube amps of the same kind, one 50 watt, and one 100 watt, to achieve the same volume, the 50 watt would have to be turned up louder than the 100 watt. This would cause the amp to "break up" more due to the tubes being driven harder. In older amps that did not have a master volume, the only way to get more distortion, was to crank the amp up to ludicrous volume levels. That was until someone came up with the idea of a power attenuator (Tom Schulz from Boston comes to mind) which allows you to crank your amplifier to achieve a good sound, but play at a more reasonable volume.

These days, most, if not all amps have a master volume, and can be overdriven sufficiently at lower volume levels. Having said that though, I still think amps sound much better the louder you go.

As for distortion pedals, [img]graemlins/puke.gif[/img] I'm not a big fan. They serve their purpose, but I find them more useful as an overdrive boost for soloing.

By the way, a 100 watt amp is nowhere near twice as loud as a 50 watt. More like 10% louder, or something like that. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[etaeniura]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

I read in a guitar mag once that a 100w amp will only be slightly louder than a 50w, and in order to actually double the volume, you need to increase wattage ten fold. That said, unless you are playing live to a large crowd, the necessity for 100w is is null. Even then, most places mic an amp through the PA so you don't actually have to crank it all the way up. HIgher wattage amps will supposedl;y give you a better tone at higher volumes, and obviously lower wattage amps will distort at lower volumes. as far as stompboxes go, in my opinion they sound best used through the clean channel. I have played OD/distortion pedals through the dirty channel on an amp and have been unimpressed by the tone. Some people like Zakk Wylde use a pedal to act as a boost to the distortion channel for leads. Lastly, lower wattage amps are usually quite a bit less expensive, and if you are going ofr a tube amp, will cost you less in retubing costs over the long run.

[The Chase]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

Yeah, I've heard the volume thing, too. A 50W increase yields only like 3 dB. Any good 50w amps you'd recommend? Not expensive boogie's though, and not combo's, please

[skarhead]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

yup , that with the 100/50 volume issue w is real afaik (from what i've read and heard )

actually it's sometimes better to get a 50/60 - the power amp tubes are warmed up more = better tone.

[Firebird V]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

I run all my 100 watt heads at 50 watts.

[CZSER]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

Originally posted by etaeniura:
I read in a guitar mag once that a 100w amp will only be slightly louder than a 50w, and in order to actually double the volume, you need to increase wattage ten fold. That said, unless you are playing live to a large crowd, the necessity for 100w is is null. Even then, most places mic an amp through the PA so you don't actually have to crank it all the way up. HIgher wattage amps will supposedl;y give you a better tone at higher volumes, and obviously lower wattage amps will distort at lower volumes. as far as stompboxes go, in my opinion they sound best used through the clean channel. I have played OD/distortion pedals through the dirty channel on an amp and have been unimpressed by the tone. Some people like Zakk Wylde use a pedal to act as a boost to the distortion channel for leads. Lastly, lower wattage amps are usually quite a bit less expensive, and if you are going ofr a tube amp, will cost you less in retubing costs over the long run.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Overdrive & Distortion are different concepts.
Overdrive is asociated to "soft clipping", while Distortion is asociated to "hard clipping" of wave.
What u should use to push your amp to higher gain is an OVERDRIVE pedal in Front of your Overdrive/Clean channel NOT LEAD/Distortion channel. If fact, this is like Overload your Clean/Overdrive channel to achieve more Overdrive(soft clipping).

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

Originally posted by Firebird V:
I run all my 100 watt heads at 50 watts.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you have a 1/2 power swutch or do you just pull out 2 power tubes? On a Marshall JCM what 2 do you pull, the inside 2 or the outside 2?

100W can be overkill for most people. You get better power amp distortion at lower levels on a 50 watt amp. I have a JCM 800 2203 and it is almost too loud for a lot of applications.

[Fragle]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

people often underestimate the power those 50w amps have. they can seriously kick ass. even small 15w tube amps or even smaller are VERY loud.
i think that those high wattage amps are mainly for clean headroom and heavily fx loaded sounds (or for bass heavy sounds....think triple rectifier)....hell, it really depends on your taste of tone. if you like it marshally overdriven, go for lower wattage. i bet you'll still have to use a hot plate or whatever if you want to have power tube saturation with those 50w amps, even when playing medium shows. for that mesa-ish clear sound and lots of clean headroom go for 100/150/400/500/whatever watt amps.
if i see poweramps like the mesa strategy 400 or 500 i always wonder whats the sense. they may be suitable if you are playing stadiums and the PA is shit so that you cant hear yourself. but hell, even acdc use just a 45w marshall under the stage that is miced and goes through the pa. i doubt they are using a backline at all (maybe for feedback fx)

greets
fragle

[etaeniura]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

I kind of use overdrive/distortion/dirty interchangeably. I realize that distortion typically refers to a more saturated sound than overdrive, but since I use mainly solid state stuff, the difference is just a half turn on the gain knob [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[The Chase]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

Hmm. So you could buy a 100w amp and pull out two tubes and play? Does this apply to every proper 100w amp? I'm thinking of getting a Toni Iommi GH100TI 100w amp.

[Immortal]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

Originally posted by Fragle:
people often underestimate the power those 50w amps have. they can seriously kick ass. even small 15w tube amps or even smaller are VERY loud.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is so true. I'heard Fender Hot Rod (40w) in medium room with volume at 3 and it was too much.

[DJROBA]

Re: So what\'s the tone difference between 50W and 100W?

With my experience with Marshall JCM800's, The 50watt 2204 is more subtle, and warm. The 2203's are less warm, and more gainy. My favorite set up is to have one of each. The combination of the 2 is awesome. If I had to choose 1 or the other, I would go with the 50watt.