getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

[Fragle]

hi all

it's somewhat strange, but everytime i listen to death metal (especially more recent cannibal corpse stuff) i'm totally blown away by the sheer brutality of those sounds. the problem is that i cant figure out what seperates your basic scoop sound from such a huge and room filling sound like CCs bloodthirst or their new album?
for example, i can get quite a nice approximation to those sounds with my laney, but its not quite there. its lacking the icing on the cake, so to speak. so my question is, what do i need to get closer? i guess a good eq will help, but that cant be everything [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. to me it sounds like corpse use a compressor or something similar most of the time.

another question: i still need a fx unit and something i can use to practice at home (my cab stays at our rehearsal room). i saw a digitech 2101 (with the artist update) for quite cheap @ ebay a few hours ago, so what about this one? ive been told that the fx are quite good sounding, and its got a built in speaker simulator, so maybe i can use it for practicing @ home (via my pc).....and after all, jack owen uses one of those, so maybe this unit will help me with getting closer to his sound?

just gimme some thoughts and ideas [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

greets
fragle

ps: my laney doesnt have a stereo fx loop. am i still able to use it as a poweramp for lets say the digitech? can i use both outputs of the 2101 and mix them together afterwards? (actually, even if i had a stereo fx loop i'd still hear them through the same cab because i only have one [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[toejam]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

[ QUOTE ]
it's somewhat strange, but everytime i listen to death metal (especially more recent cannibal corpse stuff) i'm totally blown away by the sheer brutality of those sounds. the problem is that i cant figure out what seperates your basic scoop sound from such a huge and room filling sound like CCs bloodthirst or their new album?
for example, i can get quite a nice approximation to those sounds with my laney, but its not quite there. its lacking the icing on the cake, so to speak.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's because the rhythm guitar tracks are overdubbed a few times. Not sure exactly how many guitar tracks they layered, but that's the key to a thicker sound right there... not to mention having a great producer like Neil Kernon.

[Fragle]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

of course, the usual studio cheating [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] but well...i think their live sound is pretty brutal, too. hell, i even got a bootleg (really shitty quality) and its still brutal as hell, so....

[Inearthed]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

Part of it is the low tuning of the music. Other part is playing style. Thicker strings help, more aggressive picking and heavier palm muting also helps. A lot of the time the drums and bass really make the guitars sound heavy as hell. I'll ask my friend who does a lot of recording how to get as heavy a tone as possible.

They probably use a compressor to even out the sound a little bit in the studio but I'm not a fan of using a compressor in a guitar rig live.

Digitech 2101 is a death metal guitarist's friend. You might be tempted to start using this live after playing through it. It has versitility and I know of 2 local guitarists that swear by these things and have been using them for years.

[warhead]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

[ QUOTE ]
I'll ask my friend who does a lot of recording how to get as heavy a tone as possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah man!! Do it!! I`m also very interested to hear some tips on how to make the guitar sound heavier on the recording.

[Fragle]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

"Digitech 2101 is a death metal guitarist's friend. "

mmh.....that sounds cool. by the way, i just found out that emperor almost exclusively used the 2101 for prometheus....and i like the way this album sounds....AND i found a website with several soundlips (unfortunately, basically every single clip was either clean or crunch) and i like the clean sounds VERY much...
what do you guys think a used 2101 is worth nowadays? furthermore, how does it sound direct into pc/mixer? and which poweramp should one use with it?
maybe somebody can tell me what the limitations of the 2101 are...i guess when it comes to fx the possibilities are almost endless, but what about the preamp section?

any input is appreciated [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

btw, heres the link to the 2101 i found @ ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...e=STRK:MEWA:IT


greets
fragle

[toejam]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

The 2101 is the unit that Jack Owen uses, right? The one he has was given to him by a fan and has been rebuilt a couple times, I believe he mentions this on the bonus dvd that came with The Wretched Spawn cd. Not sure exactly how close to original it is, so maybe it was modified to give him a better sound?

[Fragle]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

yeah, jack used to use it for the last couple of albums. i think i'd kill for knowing what having it rebuild means in this case ^^ because.....well.....take out the live cannibalism album.....listen to stripped, raped and strangled...the intro...when jack plays straight 8th notes palm muted eb chords...thats exactly the sound i'm talking about. (by the way: i dig fishers vocals on the last albums...but he kind of ruined this song for me...this ridiculous scream at the beginning..sorry bro, but thats not the way this song was meant to be)

the wretched spawn is imo the first time pat sounds better than jack. but see how pat refuses to tell you what exactly he used for the wretched spawn? he says the last album was his triple rectifier, but then he says that its not sure whether he'll use it for TWS, too, or not

greets
fragle

[Inearthed]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

As far as power amps to go with the 2101... I have no clue. But I do know some stuff about the 2101. Its a great unit but its main downfall is the fact that it supposedly has a very steep learning curve (meaning you will have to take a lot of time learning how to operate the unit properly). A local musician in Seattle toured with Vile on the last Cannibal Corpse tour (with Exhumed) and used the 2101 live.

Here are two links I found on the internet for the 2101 (I was really looking into buying one a while back but I couldn't find one for the right price). http://www.gsp2101.noisytoyz.com/ http://home.arcor.de/pirat28/sites/gsp2101main.htm

What kind of guitar do you have and what kind of pickups?

[Fragle]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

"What kind of guitar do you have and what kind of pickups? "

my main guitar is an esp m series 7string with stock duncan designed pickups. (i cant quite convince myself to change the pu's, because they arent THAT bad and i'm not really sure if the difference between those and some better ones is worth the 200&#8364....yeah, shame on me for having an esp as my main guitar while posting @ the jackson board [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] looking for a rhoads @ ebay, though.


one question: the 2101 seems to have an endless EQ capability. is it possible to create a patch that consists ONLY of a (or more) eq(s)? basically to use the 2101 as a substitution for one or more eq's in the fx loop. btw: would the signal still be coloured by the 2101 preamp section? or is the fx section completely independent and can be used without the preamp section?

greets
fragle

[Inearthed]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

Having never used one but talked to people who use it you can completely bypass the PreAmp section. On Harmony Central people talked about using it exclusively for its effects.

[quiksilver]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

Oh, I thought you meant CC DeVille. I was gonna recommend a BC Rich and a Crate stack! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Matt Crooks]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

A couple of comments...

The DD pickups really are that bad... you should change out the bridge pickup to something good - it will make a huge difference.

For the CC albums Neil had them track four rhythm tracks for each song - thhats where a good deal of the fullness comes from. Also, the majority of the power in a metal guitar sound comes from the bass guitar. A super tight bass player with the rhythm guitars will sound like a massive guitar even though it's really two instruments.

[eaeolian]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

I agree with Matt - replace those DD pickups with something good, and you'll be AMAZED at how much better your guitar sounds.

Nothing wrong with those LTDs as guitars - not great, not bad.

Mike

[Fragle]

Re: getting a huge death metal sound a la CC

hell, even loomis played them, so they gotta be good ^^
so maybe i'll take a look at different pu's....maybe a tonezone or a evolution....damn, i wish dimarzio would make a 7string x2n, that would rock.

well, i'm gonna try to score the 2101....if the preamp section isnt that good ill at least have a decent fx processor - and a hell lot of equalizers ^^

greets
fragle