amp advice (stack->combo?)

[Fragle]

hi all

i'm thinking about selling my laney halfstack for some tube combo. well, it's mainly because i found out that a 50w tube halfstack isn't loud enough for gigging, anyway, and for rehearsal a combo would be sufficient...i guess (our drummer is VERY loud so i got to crank my amp to 6-7 in order to be heared). i just don't like to carry a box/head/guitar around every rehearsal, you know?

so basically, what i want is a all tube combo, 2*12" speakers, at least 2 channels (3 would be great) and enough power to drive a extension 412 cab for gigging (and to be able to be heared over our drummer without an extension cab). sound wise i want a clean channel that stays clean up to master 8 or so (basically, i want to be able to switch to the clean channel without having to turn down my volume pot), a van halen stlye crunch channel (obviously not exactly van halen's sound, but about the same gain level and distortion character) and a 3rd channel with some serious high gain capacity with enough brutality for death metal (btw: our band plays thrash metal). the 2nd channel isnt THAT important because i'd be satisfied with some overdrive pedal in front of the clean channel, but the other two channels are absolutely neccessary.
i don't like tones that have lots of highend or are harsh sounding, but i dont need lots of bass, too. i prefer (slightly) scooped, a bit dark sounding tones, such as MoÜ/AJfA era metallica, Cannibal Corpse etc. it's actually not THAT important, as long as the sound is TIGHT...like john schaffer's sound tight....engl powerball is great when it comes to tightness

price range......depends. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] i think i'd be able to sell my stack for around 700euro, and i still got some stuff lying around that i want to sell which is another 200euro, so i guess i'd be happy if you recommend something at around 1000-1100euro....otherwise i'd have to wait a few months to get enough money...i guess 1600euro or so is the maximum.
it doesnt have to be new, so used stuff is ok, too.

but well....first i'd like to know what you guys think about that....do you think a 212 combo will do it for me? i'm not really THAT sure if it would be loud enough, because as i said above, i got to crank my halfstack quite a lot.

ah, and by the way, it shouldn't be THAT heavy...i guess about 40kilos (about 85 pounds i think) is more or less the limit.

greets
fragle

[markD]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

well, it's not EXACTLY what you're looking for, but the Fender Twin Amp (evil twin - not twin reverb reissue) is pretty cool. the only area where it doesn't meet your criterion is with the gain channel. it does hard rock okay (you can get a good, tight, thick tone), but it doesn't thrash! you would need to add a pedal. but it stays clean at loud volumes, and it should be able to take an extra 4x12 (you may have to rewire the internal speakers - can't remember if it's at 4 ohms or 8). some other cool features are that it has an truly assignable effects loop (you could add outboard gear and assign it to the crunch channel to get a "3rd" channel), it has a half power switch (100 to 25 watts) for when you want power tube OD at low volumes, and i believe the reverb is assignable also. it meets your weight requirements, and should fit in your price range.

[Venomboy]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

Sounds like a Peavey XXX 2x12 combo would work perfectly for you. New they're around $1000-ish, used, if you can find them, slightly less.

[Fragle]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

just checked them.....they are 1450 euro new, and well.....when it comes to features they seem to be great. exactly what i was looking for. 120w should be enough power for me (hell, this is sooo sick, i remember playing a 40w solid state amp and thinking "hey, i think i will NEVER need that much volume", and now 50w TUBE are not enough for me....), and 3 independent channels each with its own EQ.....thats great

one question: do they sound anything like the heads, or is it more like the 5150 head/combo thing? you know, where the combo has about twice the gain of the head or something
i'm asking because a friend of mine owns one of those (head version), so it would be no problem for me to check them out...although he plays his through a 1960B marshall cab i think, so i guess the combo will sound quite different

greets
fragle

[joblo1978]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

From my experience with combos, which is all I've ever had, don't get one. Just get yourself a head, you already have a cab and a head is going to be just as much as a tube combo. My 5150 combo was just as much as a 5150 head. Combos just don't have the depth of a 4x12 cab, expecially for what you play, depth is what you want. Do that and thank me later.

What do you mean a 50 watt tube head isn't loud enough for gigging?! In case you didn't know, wattage isn't a measurement for volume. Any tube head will be loud enough for you to play practically an size venue. Just because an amp has more watts doesn't mean it is louder. The reason is because for you to get 50% more volume, you would have to quadruple your wattage. My 5150 2x12 is only 50 or 60 watts and it's plenty loud (just as loud as a head and cab) to play just about any venue.

[Fragle]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

well, i guess i said it in the wrong way.

concerning only VOLUME, my 50w head is loud enough. but it doesnt have enough HEADROOM for me (which is what i meant by "loud enough"...sorry if i confused anyone). maybe it sounds strange, but while i like the warmth of tube amps, i dont like their sound when cranked. i guess if i played a vintage marshall head i'd like the sound when @ 10, but thats because those amps get their GAIN from the volume they are set to. now, in my opinion todays high gain amps sound much more pleasing when set at around 4 or 5. at those volumes the poweramp just ADDS some warmth to the preamp tone, but it doesnt take it over like when set at 9. imo, that total poweramp saturation kills my tone...i guess i'm just a preamp gain type of person [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

and yes, i know, for what i'd have to pay for a 212 XXX combo i could buy a framus cobra or engl powerball or the XXX head or even the JSX or whatever. but then i'd still have to carry around a cab, which kind of annoys me [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

and by the way, i dont think a framus cobra would show its true qualities with a laney 412 cab....i guess the laney cab (H&H speakers) is...well....not at the same level.

i'm not really sure what you mean by depth. do you mean bass? as i said above, i'm not someone who always sets bass to full [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] i like a certain amount of bass in my sound, just enough to add a 3D quality to my sound without drowning out the bass player. with my laney, i usually set the bass around 9 o'clock. when set to 3 o'clock, it totally looses definition. not because my sound becomes muddy, but because if i'm playing some fast rhythm stuff at the low e string, and the bassist also plays some fast low e stuff, and then the double bass drum kicks in, the sound of the band turns into a huge BOOOM, you know? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
btw: i hate open back cabs.....i think they kill the tightness of your sound. i dont know if the XXX is an open back combo, but if so, i'd sure as hell close it ^^

greets
fragle

[guitar geek]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

depends on how much you want to spend for an used amp, but you might try to get yourself a used Engl Savage combo. these are great, but I haven's seen those in the Netherlands lately (used)

harrald

[horns666]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

I'm partial to 4 X 12" Celestion cabs....unless 5150 , then matching Shefield cab.

I had a couple Marshall 100wt JCM 800 2 X 12 combos along with a couple of others.

Some combos are very nice but when I always played over a loud drummer with them ..The amp starts to get pretty hairy sounding before I'm even close to the right volume level ....that has been my experience with combos.

I never have this problem with a 4 X 12 cab ...just my honest opinion.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

i'd rather see you go with the JSX

[joblo1978]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

The JSX does kick serious ass! It just kills and would be totally in your price range.

How can you not like the sound of a cranked tube amp? It kills SS in every way! You what do you think Cannibal Corpse uses? SS's also suck in the "headroom" department.

[Fragle]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

yeah, i never said i think SS is better than tube [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] i just think that tube amps (at least the ones i've played) sound best at 4-6 or so.

the jsx.....is about 1600euro head only. thats too much :/
and to be honest, for 1600 euro i'd rather buy a framus or a engl savage.

[lhrocker]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

Did you try getting a preamp and plugging it into your Laney FX loop? I have a 50w Laney head and I also find it not loud enough to cut thru so I decided to put a Rocktron Chamemelon into the loop return and now it it super loud with great cleans and great distortions. I've since moved to a PODxt only, but the problem could be the Laney Preamp.

Buying a pre is cheaper than getting a new rig - Kinda.

My 2 cents

[joblo1978]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, i never said i think SS is better than tube [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] i just think that tube amps (at least the ones i've played) sound best at 4-6 or so.

the jsx.....is about 1600euro head only. thats too much :/
and to be honest, for 1600 euro i'd rather buy a framus or a engl savage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm in the US and don't know what a euro is. JSX here, 1110 dollars. Framus and Savage amps here, 2000-3000 USD.

[RacerX]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

http://www.xe.com/ucc

Currency converter

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: amp advice (stack->combo?)

a 50w 1/2 stack should be loud enough and have enough headroom, perhaps its the Laney amp and speaker stuff you are using [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I can't speak for the XXX but I have a widebody 1x12 DC-5 Mesa/Boogie combo with added widebody 1x12 3/4 back extension cab and its pretty damn loud. It would be plenty loud to gig with but I'm old school and always used heads and 4x12's. I have this Mesa setup right next to a JCM 800 2203 (100 watts) and a 4x12 and together these two amps sound awesome. If your into he super hi gain stuff maybe you should go for a Dual Rectifier 2x12 if you want a combo, you could always run it with a 4x12 too.