SLO 100 effects loop

[jazzman]

Anyone know of any multi effects rack unit that won't change the sound of the amp? I've tried a couple things, but they all change it somehow. Mabey it's just the nature of the beast. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[jeff300]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

Er, OK... I'll bite.

Isn't the point of using effects to change the sound?

What exactly are you talking about? Gimme more info and maybe I can help you out. I've used and still use a lot of different processors.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

The effects loop in the SLO 100s are kinda notorious for altering the tone in a bad way when you use them. Bret, Pete or Ross could chime in and explain it better than I can though.

[jazzman]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

An effect should take your sound and add to it. Not change your sound and then add to it. The problem with the effects have been changing the body of the sound even in bypass mode. When you add anything into your signal path, it may alter your sound. If the effect is designed well, it shouldn't do anything to the basic sound. It should only add to it. The problem is the SLO has a series loop vs. a paralell loop. If I have it converted, it will again change the basic sound of the amp.

[Firebird V]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

I have had no luck with mine and the Series/Par. is the reason as you have said. But any effects loop will change tone. I actually run a switcher and use pedals with mine and that works well. I have a Parametric EQ and a Compressor/limiter/gate in the loop. Everything else (TS-9/Wah/Chorus....etc.) I run in front with the switcher putting it in and out of the signal chain. It works very well for me and I love the tones I am getting with it. I actually stopped running everything for a while and like it better now so I don't even use any of the effects I have except for a wah and the TS-9 in front of CH1.

Mine is a rack head so it probably is a bit easier for me because it is all contained in one big box.

Good luck.

[slo100]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

Either kind of effects loop will color the tone of the amp to some degree.

On an SLO the series loop takes 100% of the signal routes it out of the amp through the effects device(s) and back into the amp. In this case you are relying on the signal quality, clarity, and transparancy of the effects to get the original tone back to the effects return. I prefer a very dry tone and typically rely on the PA to give me reverb and delay as necessary. The drier the better for uncolored tone and clarity of your notes. I have found loading down your signal with compressors, EQs, and all kinds of junk just waters down your amp. There are people who spend thousands of dollars on great amps and then put $50 stomp box EQs in thier loops! I don't get it.

Amps with parallel effects loops provide the flexibility of mixing the original dry signal with the wet effected signal providing a means of retaining the dry tone and mixing the effects in as desired. The issue here is that there is a lot more circuitry involved and to my ears, there is a loss of clarity. Some people hear this as "warmer" or "more gain" but I hear it as a loss of the crisp tone I like. To me the more circuitry my guitar's signal has to pass through to get to the speakers the more muddy it gets. This is a not a popular opinion in most circles.

In both these cases the effects loops are driven by (in tube amps) dedicated 12AX7 tubes and the circuit path is altered compared to not using the loops.

I prefer to use good quality true bypass effects like a chorus and wah into the front end and run a signal through the PA to get delays and reverbs if I want ambiance. If you have a good soundman who can run your delay for you during solos and such it is the best of all worlds!

Run dry man! Let your fingers do the talking, not circuits.

[jgcable]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

I agree. Mesa Boogies are the same way. They have the good buffered effects loops but putting anything in a Boogies loop comprimises the tone. Soldano's and Mesa's sound better dry. If you must have effects use true bypass stomp boxes in front of the amp and leave the effects loop alone. I use a stereo chorus, an analog tape delay and a wah pedal in front of my boogie. They all have true bypass and my tone is pretty much the same as using the amp dry. I did the same thing with the Soldano I used to own and it worked out great.

[Chuckracer]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

Anything you put in the loop of an SLO will squish the tone of the amp. It's unavoidable. I don't care how transparent or "true bypass" that item is, as soon as you connect something into the effects loop of an SLO, bye bye tone.
The loop in an SLO sucks. Literally. If I get another SLO, it will be one totally without the effects loop and related circutry.

[jgcable]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

Even Michael Soldano himself doesn't like his effects loops.

[jazzman]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

I agree totally. I usually run dry. I guess I wanted to get back into my 80's days when I used my ADA with rack and effecs. I found a midi controller that would also act as a footswitch via relays. So, I hooked up my old quad to it. It sucked! It still sounds good with the ADA but, with the SLO It sounded like Poop! I even emailed Soldano (a while back) re: what effect did Mike use to test the loop. That was the only time I did't get a reply. They have great customer support, but not with this. BTW what do you do for leads? I use an old Boss EQ (flat)through the effects loop to cut the volume of the rhythm tone which is another downfall of the amps loop. You can't have a boost. Only a rhythm cut. I called and talked to Michael himself and he said they could build me a passive volume box to cut the rhythm sound. There are some serious design flaws with the amp, but the basic tone F in ROCKS!

[jazzman]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

I have actually been running dry for a few years. But, one night I brought my old ADA out with the Alesis quad and it sounded good and was cool to control the FX myself. I don't always trust sound guys anyway. So it gave me the idea to try it with the Soldano. Bad idea! It sounded like complete POOP! However, the Soldano's distortion tone still smoked! BTW-I already knew about the FX loop's signal being altered verses not using it. It's nice to see others who understand guitar the way I do. I'm wicked pickey. I stress myself out over tone. Mabey If I just quit guitar and sell everything, I won't have any more stress. But, how would I learn stuff from the next Dream Theater CD?

[jazzman]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

All right, I don't usually post too much on the same topic. But, where did you hear Mike Soldano don't like his FX loops? Mabey thats why he never replied when I emailed him asking what processor was used to hear the loop when the amp was designed. Does Bogner have an edge?

[slo100]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

Mike was simply referring to the limitations of a series effects loop. You have to understand the history of the SLO before dismissing it as having design flaws. It was originally conceived in the early 80's with the first example appearing in 1986. The amp was designed more around a specific tone than bells and whistles. This amp is meant for players and most often used by players who want uncluttered tone. Many people ordered their SLOs without effects loops or even slave outs. Compared to these amps today with a million knobs, switches, and features it may appear to the uneducated lacking. I assure you in tone it has been for nearly 20 years the mark that everyone else has been aiming. 5150 amps owe their existence to the SLO and to a degree, so does the rectifier. Those apples fell pretty far from the tree IMHO.

To Mike's credit, he has not changed one specification of the SLO since the original design. I would suggest reading his tech articles at www.soldano.com and you will save me a lot of keystrokes. Instead of redesigning a classic, they came up with the Decatone that gives players a Soldano with the bells and whistles but tonally still does not match an SLO in my opinion.

The nice thing about Soldano is if you want to custom order an amplifier based on an SLO or Decatone but tweaked to your needs they will do it. It will cost a fortune but you can have whatever you want.

If you are using a $50 Boss EQ to get the tone you want, with all due respect to you, you bought the wrong amp. To me that is like buying a Ferrari and going to Pep Boys and getting Cherry Bomb mufflers installed because you think it improves the car.

For solos you have the sound man goose your signal. If you play in a one guitar band this is usually not even necessary. If you are in a two guitar band you two guys should be working together having one back off when the other is doing his thing.

Get that EQ out of the loop! As Chuck said, anything in that loop is going to muddy your sound so you may get the volume you want but you are killing your tone and hence, your ability to cut through the band. If you must have something to give you an edge during soloing that you want to control get a high quality gain boost (not distortion or overdrive!) and run it into the front end. Something like a Fulltone or the new Duncan box that gives you clean boost. That should retain the tone and just give you a bit more juice for solos.

[Firebird V]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

"To me that is like buying a Ferrari and going to Pep Boys and getting Cherry Bomb mufflers installed because you think it improves the car. "

Heh heh heh. That is funny.... lol Say "hi to Mo for me... lol

[jgcable]

Re: SLO 100 effects loop

I started off with cherry bombs but if you want a real performance upgrade for your Ferrari you should be looking at the Thrush steel packs or if you like it a little quieter.. a nice set of Hush Thrush glass packs.