Serious Line 6 discussion..

[jgcable]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

and in keeping with the topic, I have not noticed a loss in presence or volume when using a Line 6 modeling amp live. My bandmate and myself did a side by side comparison when he was looking to purchase the Vetta 2 head. We were only interested in the high gain side because we both already were sold on the fantastic cleans that you can get out of a modeling amp. Here is what we used:
1st Year Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier
2001 Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier
2000 Mesa Boogie Tremoverb
2001 Soldano HR50
Carvin modded X100B
Engl Powerball
Peavey 5150
All of these amps were played through an oversized Mesa straight 4 x 12 cabinet with stock Mesa speakers in a large rehearsal studio or at East Coast Music Mall.
We were listening for tone and volume and balls.
Tone wise, the Vetta 2 does an outstanding job on the Powerball, the 5150, the Marshall Silver Jubilee (actually all the Marshall amp models were awesome) and the Mesa amps. It actually sounded better than the actual amps to us and it was just as loud if not louder too.
We thought the real Soldano sounded much better than the Vetta 2 but it you stacked the Soldano patch with the Engl on the Vetta and did some EQ'ing it was absolutely killer.
Regarding volume and presence... the Vetta was a monster with the volume on 3.
The down side is when you roll off the volume to decrease the gain on your guitar a modeling amp doesn't react the nice way a tube amp does. BUT, with 100+ presets at your feet all you need to do is set up a patch and dial down the gain and save it. With a modeling amp there really is no need for a volume or a tone control on your guitar. Just an on/off and a pickup selector. Again... the volume and presence on the latest Line 6 amps (Flextone 3, Spider 2, Vetta 2) is more than most players will ever need in a live and loud application IMHO.

[data187]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

i have a hd147 and i use 3 models...lol
i can't vouch for the tonal acuracy of all the amps, but i can say all the models sounded great on their own. so if you want to scrap the modeling debate, you can say the hd147 gives you 32 great sounds.

[Chuckracer]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

John, it's not about volume, it's about presense. When I hear a modeler, to my ear it's as if the bottom and top of the frequency range is chopped off. It's analog vs. digital, and just like in photography, I can spot the difference.
It all comes down to feel, and I personally play the amp as much as I play the guitar, coaxing sounds out of it with my hands and the guitars volume control.
You cannot do this with a modeler. It takes a real good tube amp to respond to all those nuances.

Newc, I'll take your blindfold test any old day of the week.

Look, I'm not saying my way is right and your way (whoever's way) is wrong, it's just that sterile lack of feel thing that I can't shake with modelers. Maybe I should try something better than I have, like the Vetta.

But if I look up at a deep blue summer sky as twilight is approaching, then someone shows me a picture of that sky, I think I can tell the difference between the picture and the real thing. Because the picture is going to show only one color in the sky, whereas looking at the real deal you can see various shades of blue, never ending, always changing. That, to me, is the same as modeling vs. the Real Deal.

[Firebird V]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

Bang for the buck - Modelling amps
Bells and whistles Modelling amps.
Spectrum of tone from one amp - Tubes.
Easy to use.-Tubes.

I guess if you are into covers and need to cop someone elses tone 30 different times in one night you need a modelling amp. Personally I just stick with the one or two settings and let my hands change the tone.

I played a Vamp at my brothers house next to a Boogie and my SLO and the Vamp got very close but it lacked the little things to my ears that made the difference. Still in all you cant beat the price if you can get over the little differences IMO.
Also, I think a bunch of people that have modelling amps have never heard the amps that the tones are modelled after. They take it for granted. If it says it is a Bogner clone than it must sound like a Bogner... It might be close but it is never close enough to my ears. And I hate buttons and clicking dial setting thingys and red digital lights!!!!! The hd147 is the best one I have heard but I am biased because it doesn't have a digfital readout screen and I like that even though I thionk the rest of it looks ugly as hell...

Bottom line is that I can never own one of these because I tweek it so much that it never sounds like what I am trying to emulate... That and the fact that I spend way to much time screwing with it and not playing... It works for some but not me.

[jgcable]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

Chuck and Chris.. good points.
Chuck, here is my take on your analogy regarding the sky and the picture of the sky:
The real tube amp is certainly exactly what you see when you look up at the sky.
The modeling amp is a picture of that same sky after somebody digitally enhanced it and made it better. The stars twinkle more, the moon is brighter with more detail and the color of the sky is just perfect and flawless.
Also, with a modeling amp you have the option of choosing from 100+ different versions of a "night sky".
Keep in mind that I am not debating tubes vs modeling. I am a true blue Boogie user. I am strictly disputing the "modeling amps get lost in the mix" theory. Plain and simple.... they don't. Not even the bottom of the line Spider 2 2 x 12 combo. Unless you are maxing out full or 1/2 stack Mesa's or Marshalls, the new Line 6 stuff can hang with no problem.

[Chuckracer]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

"The real tube amp is certainly exactly what you see when you look up at the sky.
The modeling amp is a picture of that same sky after somebody digitally enhanced it and made it better. The stars twinkle more, the moon is brighter with more detail and the color of the sky is just perfect and flawless."

And that's better than what Nature gives us? No way. It is an "enhanced" version, which means that it's fake.
With the real sky, I can see a million varaitions of light blue to dark blue as I look from east to west. All the picture can do is give me snapshots of those colors, approximations, but cannot capture the pallete. It will give me one of the millions of different shades of blue. And if I want a dufferent shade of blue, I have to step on a switch to get it.

He he...naw, you can have your modeling stuff mate. I'll stick with the whole sky. Not an "enhanced" version.

[ApeDosMil]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

so would you guys recomend a Line 6 spider 112 for gigging? does it sound good at louder volumes and can hold it's ground in a gigging envirment?(sp) with or w/o a P.A

I really don't care for tubes, i just want a clean channel and a very heavy distortion (close to killswitch engage) i set my controls to high gain on my marshall and leave them as is..

[Chuckracer]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

If all you want is two sounmds, there's no point in using a modeler.

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

When you are listening to someone else playing these modeling amps, it would be difficult to notice the differences between the real tube amps and modeling amps.
That is why it would be good for recording.

However, when you are actually playing it, you will hear the differences and modeling amps react very differently to your picking when you compare to real tube amps that's what I consider it as very unreal and isolated.

If I only had $300 in my pocket for an amp, I would go for one of these.
They are still cool....toys.

[jgcable]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..


Again.. I agree with Chuck. If you only need 2 sounds you certainly don't need a modeling amp. If you are going for a Spider 2 combo you should be looking at the 2 x 12 version. I also agree with Chuck that the "real amp" is much more fun and responsive to play than the modeled version of it. There is nothing better for me than playing my Studio 22. BTW... Line 6 doesn't have a model of the Studio 22. Not even anything close. With that said, there is still a place in my amp arsenal for a modeling amp. I frequently get calls for gigs requiring anything from blues and southern rock to 80's through todays metal and a modeling amp really helps out. It is also nice that the new generation of modeling amps are wicked loud, with great speakers in them and built like tanks. The Spider 2 I have is loaded with 2 x 12" celestions. The combo is around 70lbs with casters (not as heavy as a 5150 but close) and not only is it built very well, it really thumps. Bigtime.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

I'd love to play a Vetta II through a 4x12 to see how I would like it. I think the technology has come a long way and will continue to get better. The only modeler I have is a J-Station and I loved it, in fact it was the only thing I used for about a year, only firing up a Marshall a couple times. The longer I played with it the colder it began to sound to me. I went full circle and I only play my amps now and have a amp thing going on now. I don't even look at guitars anymore, only amps and cabs [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I just scored a VHT Pitbull 50 CL with EQ and reverb and a bogner 4x12...can't wait to get it..

I understand where Chuck is coming from 100% and to me I lose the "feel" using a modeler, the harmonic characteristics of a tube amp warmly ringing out and feeding back musically, the attach of the pick, muted notes etc. I like Chucks use of the term of "playing" the amp, it is so true.

I think there is no wrong or right here but what works for you. I like the idea having multiple amps in one box but I also like having multiple amps around [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

I have been into the amp acquisition thing myself for a while now. I actually have more amps then guitars. I am still looking to score a couple of more Boogies when the funds permit. I would like to get a Mark IV and a DC5 wide body. Of course a Mark IIc+ would be nice too if I hit the lottery some day.
I am just addressing the "volume issue" that comes up when a modeling amp is mentioned. I don't see an issue. I prefer to play my "real" tube amps too. Boogie for me baby!

[dinkyjacksonman]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

You should get Tom's Triaxis.
It has a lot of Mesa amps in it and they sound great too.
I had one before.

[jgcable]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

I never tried a Triaxis but I heard that Metallica uses them. I am sure I will have one eventually!

[Newc]

Re: Serious Line 6 discussion..

The info regarding the points addressed in this thread about the differences between the modelers and the "real things" would certainly be helpful to the companies that make modelers. Perhaps they would truly be able to nail those "missing" parts.

Newc