Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

[paddok]

So I know alot of you do the whole home recording thing. I need some advice. I'm looking to program drums to use in full songs in protools. I have an Mbox currently, and I'm not really sure of the best route. I've read about drumkit from hell superior, and I've been tempted by some drum machines, but I don't really know **** about MIDI.

Could someone help and suggest a good path?

[Ace]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

Hire a drummer. If you really want your music to sound authentic, then no drum machine I've ever heard sounds anything at all like a real person behind a kit. Not that there is anything wrong with a drum machine, it's just that me and about 75% of people on earth can tell the difference.

[skarhead]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

record or program ?

to program drums i use guitar pro 4 ( altough there are some cons of this - i couldn't find a way to put trioles underneath normal 8/16'th notes )

then i think you could put your midi through a sampler with samples - the best thing would drumkit from hell (i think the newest one has a built in sampler) - each hit there is different just like on normal drums - or ...

if you're playing deathmetal/blackmetal/grindcore : use the above method only to record toms and maybe snare , for double bass use only one sample - no changes - that gives you the feel of "plastic" drums (often connected with "clicky" drum sound), altough you can put single samples for all toms except cymbals - they sound ultra fake with one sample)

and : in my experience - a drummer can program drums far better than you - all those fills , cymbal beats etc.

[Rhmsc8]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

I use Superior. I love it!! You need to play around to get them to sound authentic. But not due to the lack of ability that they used in recording the actual drums. Just in terms of velocity and things as such. DFH Superior is truly amazing. You haver full control.

The demo's on site don't do it justice.

Just my 2 cents.

[labelscott]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

There is a program out there called Drag and Drop Drummer. It's a cd that has a bunch of different beats and fills. Basically you just drag and drop the beat that you want in ahd put in your fills and that's it. I would then import the wave files into Cakewalk. You can manipulate the tempos and what not. It's pretty cool.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

I don't know whats harder to deal with...programing drums machines, cut and pasting them in the project or hiring a real drummer...all 3 are painfull to deal with [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sukisyn]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

Isn't that the truth! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[sambencuda]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

I use Cubase and an SR-16 or Halion for the sounds. Halion has a few really good kits IMO.

Jim

[Shawn]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know whats harder to deal with...programing drums machines, cut and pasting them in the project or hiring a real drummer...all 3 are painfull to deal with [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew you bastards were drum haters. It took 3 years, but the truth is finally revealed....I have actually been sent here as an infiltrator from the Tama board to gather hard evidence of percussion racism....

I can now end this charade of liking guitars. Everything I own is for sale.



Shawn
University of Miami Class of 1992
Percussive arts major.

[markD]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

shawn i still need a percussive arts major in my band!!

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know whats harder to deal with...programing drums machines, cut and pasting them in the project or hiring a real drummer...all 3 are painfull to deal with [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew you bastards were drum haters. It took 3 years, but the truth is finally revealed....I have actually been sent here as an infiltrator from the Tama board to gather hard evidence of percussion racism....

I can now end this charade of liking guitars. Everything I own is for sale.

Shawn
University of Miami Class of 1992
Percussive arts major.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I don't hate drums, I love drums...its the drummers that I have a problem with [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ninja Guitar]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

If you decide to buy an actual drum machine, you simple can't go wrong with an Alesis SR16. Try to find a used one in good condition. I got mine for $99 with the power supply and booklet.

My only complaints about the SR16 are the limited number of user patterns which can be stored, and that you can't program the thing to change tempo at certain points in a song. There are tricks I learned to get by these problems, though. If you get one and have any trouble with it, just PM me.

Like Ace said, you really have to consider whether or not having a real drummer matters to you. Most of the people who'll listen to your music will probably be able to tell if you're using a drum machine or a real drummer. For me it's not a big deal, I went completely solo like, a year ago. I still play with some bands, but just as a session musician or live fill-in. I don't have any composing or producing responsibilities in any bands other than my own.

[ScarredDollFace]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

[ QUOTE ]
Hire a drummer. If you really want your music to sound authentic, then no drum machine I've ever heard sounds anything at all like a real person behind a kit. Not that there is anything wrong with a drum machine, it's just that me and about 75% of people on earth can tell the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="red"> Ditto!!!!!! </font>


Listen to me. I'm a recording engineer and I work in Pro Tools all day long it seams (not to my delight, I'm an analog tape and DP guy, but...)

If you want it to sound good ( I mean really good), hire a good drummer with a good sounding kit (good= the sound you want) that IS TUNED WITH FRESH HEADS ON THE KIT in a good sounding room (think reverb mostly: what kind? and how long?) with good mic technique and everthing will grand. You may want to hire somebody in you area to help with the recording.


Have the drummer play stuff that is like or is what you are looking for and also have him play all of the drums one at a time with various techniques and intensity, so you could cut up and place them in your songs latter on if the drummer playing the whole song doesn't work out.


Nick

[Ninja Guitar]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

I so hate pro tools. Only thing about it I like is its editing capabilities. Other than that, give me an ADAT machine any day.

[Infernal Death]

Re: Best way to record drums without having a drummer?

Yes like the others said it's best to use a real drummer with a good sounding kit. Then again the room should be acoustically treated, you should have some good mics, mic preamps, compressors and so on. So i think this option almost always is left for professional recording studios and they of course do it this way.
Also if you don't have some dedicated rooms for recording in a building where the extreme noise doesn't matter it's simply no option to let a real drummer play the drums.

I am still starting to get into programming drums (as i simply can't have real drums in the house i live because the neighbors would kill me) but i found Native Instruments Battery with a good sounding sample library like Drumkit from Hell to be the best way. For getting your midi into the computer you can use a midi keyboard (it should be velocity-sensitive) or for the real playing feel you can use a e-drum and sending the midi to your computer to battery. Of course then you should be able to play drums. But you can afterwards change your midi notes if you played something wrong or the timing wasn't perfect. It's much more forgiving then playing real drums and record as audio.

Flo