Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

[Guest]

This is something I have been wondering about and would love to hear some input.

I'm thinking there are two camps- those who prefer individual effects pedals, and those who like the all-in-one units like the Digitech GNXs and PODs.
I have one of the Digitech units, which I love, but am not entirely thrilled with just because switching between effects is really annoying. I think it would be easier to just have a pedal for each one, and I'm wondering if I would get a better sound too.
You know how those TV/VCR combos are cool and all, but just don't work as well as a separate TV and VCR?

I've been thinking I'd really rather have a pedal board with just the few effects that I actually use. But then until I upgrade my amp, what do I do?

I'm not gigging- I only entertain (if you want to call it that) buddies and family members.
And I do home recording, direct through my soundcard. So though the GNX dealies have the recording capabilities, I just don't have a need for them. But I like the guitar processors because for folks like me who don't yet have their coveted amp, the amp modulating feature suffices.
Am I making sense? [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

I guess basically what I'm interested in hearing is what y'all prefer and why?


Thanks!
Em

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

imo dedicated pedals Em,they always seem to have to compromise sound/quality to fit it all into the multi-effects processors & I find the pedals easier to use & to adjust!!Also,if you get tired of one pedal you can just take it out & put in a different one!!

[markD]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

well, i like the concept of rack processors, etc. for the ease of having 1 box to connect to my amp, but more often than not rack processors, etc. fall short of giving me what i want to hear.

some processors are too complicated to program with endless parameters that make tweaking boring and tedious. other processors are tweak-able enough, you get a couple of parameters for some preset sounds.

right now i am struggling with this issue because i do play live, and i want my rig as simple as possible. i already lug a couple of amps and several cabs, so i really don't want to have a bunch of pedals on the floor (or coustom mounted in my rack) to have to connect also. but using pedals would allow me to pick and choose the individual effects that i'd use, and pick the ones with the sounds that i want.

my other concern about going back to pedals is that i would need some sort of rack router or programmable loop thing that would allow me to control the effects with the midi switching on my amp. that's where processors beat out pedals.

so, it's really an interesting topic...i guess one could look at it this way:

pedals for specific sounds, and not a lot of effect parameter changes live.

rack or other processors for different settings and switching ease.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

I agree with Chuck although I am interested in teh TC Electronics G Major.

I don't use effects as I'm on keep it simple thing of guitar--->amp or guitar---->A/B switcher--->amps

[AlexL]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

I really thing some of it depends on the music you play, which was the deciding factor for me.

I am heavily into Rush and Queensryche. Songs by those artists can change gears from a clean sound with chorus reverb, and long delay, to high gain, with a doubling delay. Using pedals, you would have to do quite a tap dance to switch some pedals on, some pedals off, and it may be impossible to have two different types of delay unless you have two pedals.

With an effects processor, you can dial in a sound, save it as a preset, and then do the same with a completely different sound. Then, with a midi foot controller, you can switch between these two radically different sounds by stepping on one pedal.

I use a TC Electronics G major for a processor. This unit has no distortion or overdrive effetcs, but it does have two on-board relays that can control the channel selection of your amp like the footswitch does. So, when you recall a preset in the G Major, it can switch your amp to the clean or overdrive channel, whichever you specified you want to use with that preset.

If however, you tend to have one consistant tone and aren't going to need to switch back and forth between effetcs, pedals may be an easier solution.

Hope that clears some things up.


- Eric

[Firebird V]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

pedals. done the effect processor and for all the reasons stated and I went pedals and a switcher. can't beat it. easy to use and you can change one thing without going through fifty thousand screens. I will never ever do the effect processor thing again. i have my head racked and everything is in one box though so it is easier to move than making 50 trips to the truck.... i like the sound of the pedals i use better. what i hate about processors is that some of the effects are great in it and some suck. with pedals they are all good becuae i can choose which ones i like and toss the ones i dont. pedals will be more expensive in the long run though.... especially with a switcher...

[guitarsjb]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

I gave up the pedals and went with a Zoom 606...it sucks. It is too hard to adjust, I have had it for a few months and we just can't get along. The presets are mostly worthless, and the few I DO like are too far apart to switch between quickly. And I think it's smarter than me, cause I can't figure the damn thing out! I'm digging out my pedals...I'm glad I didn't sell them.

[Emthrax]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

What is a switcher? Ya lost me there. Or else I'm just dumb today. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Okay. Some good points to ponder here, thanks guys. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Chuck- I'm not surprised you're a pedal guy.

Eric- You and I have some similar tastes I think. I like to play with a variety of tones and could see how the tapdancing could get old. Unless you like to do that I suppose.
Compared to indiv pedals, I think the processors are close in tone but I have extremely picky ears. If it's too digital or thin sounding I don't like it.

Perhaps what I need to do is just get a couple and dork around with them for awhile.
I've seen some pretty gnarly looking pedal boards- I would want something simpler than a whole mass of 'em. But at the same time- dinking around with presets in those processors and all drives me nuts. And I only use maybe 5 out of like a hundred. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Em

[Emthrax]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

Almost forgot!

TC Electronics G major.
I'm going to have to look into that, I don't know anything about this. [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

Em

[Emthrax]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

Jeri,

Someone gave me a ZOOM for free.. ugh... lemmee check...

Okay, it's a 507 Reverb!
I don't think these are even made anymore, not like this one anyway. It's alright for dorking around I suppose.
Maybe I'll get rid of it- I never ever ever use it.

I thought maybe it would make me play faster. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Ace]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

tc electronics makes both the G major and it's big brother, the $1500 G Force. Both are excellent multi-effects units.

When it comes to choosing between pedals and a rack processor, why not both?

I like pedals because they are easy to use, and easy to dial in. They are dedicated units, and no two sound the same. There are many pedals that multi-effects processors cannot emulate, I don't give a fuk what your Line6 catalog says. Many pedals have a very distinct voice, and there is no substitue for them.

However, pedals have their limitations. For one thing, they are cumbersome and are a mess to wire into a pedal board, and in a larger pedalboard(I've worked on rigs with up to thirty pedals, plus rack gear) you have a LOT of crap in there that can go wrong. If a battery dies, or one patch cable goes out, you have to spend time looking for it. That happened to me onstage in front of 40,000 people. In short, it sucked. Also most pedals are not easily controlled besides "on" and "off". If you need two different delay times in one song, either you learn to twist knobs with your toes, or you have to buy two different pedals. And if you want to re-route your signal path, forget about it. With a multi-effects, you can just save effects banks and hit them at the push of a button.

My advice would be to get a multi-effects unit, and then add in those distinct pedals that you feel you want.

[Emthrax]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

Ace,
Okay. Now that sounds like the best of both worlds and that would definitely suit me.
I wouldn't have that nightmare that you did in front of 40,000 people- but it still sounds like a hassle all the same.
I do not like lots and lots of wires and connections- leaves too many avenues for something to go awry. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]
I've got some info on G major and G force that I will peruse through. May have some more questions later.
Thank You!

But I do have one now for whomever...

With a basic rack set-up and a few select dedicated pedals that I'd want, how would that work with recording direct like I do? Sans amp.
Hmmm... maybe I need to move that question to the tech section.

Thanks a lot folks! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[BLOOD SPLATTER]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

That depends on if you want to record the effects direct to tape or add them to the track later Em!!

[Firebird V]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

I have all my pedals in a rack draw and it is wired very neat. No mess. It is great because the pedals are not in front of you with the wire mess. It is like having a rack processor but each pedal is so simple to adjust and use. I love it. No big pedal board with a thousand wires running to it. No wire mess. I have one wire running on the floor to a midi controller to turn them on and off.

Em -

A switcher is a patchbay that you can control through midi that you can program presets into. It enables you to put pedals in and out of the signal chain. The best part about it is that you can program patches. Basically this is how it works. You have all your pedals plugged into the switcher. The cables are only a few inches long going from the pedals in and outs to the switcher. No big signal loss because the pedals are not running 20 ft of cables each way. SO - Your pedals are on. You have a midi controller on the floor in front of you. When you want to turn one on or off you just step on the controller button that the pedal is assigned to. So say patch one is a flanger. Patch 2 is a chorus. Patch 3 is an overdrive pedal.... and so on. You can use each one individually or make a patch to run all of them or just certain ones. So say you are jamming out song that has a chorus on it. The solo you have planned has a delay and an auto wah in it but no chorus. This is where a switch is great. Instead of stomping on the auto wah and the delay at the same time AND shutting of the chorus, you program a patch that automatically shuts OFF the chorus and turns ON the auto wah and the delay all at the same time. Now you are stepping on one button instead of three pedals all at once. Get it? I can turn 9 pedals on or off all at the touch of one button with system that I have. No pedal dancing. One button. I use a Rocktron patchmate and a midi-mate controller and it is easy to program and use. 128 different presets you can program with 12 banks. i only have like 7 presets but I use them all. Stupid people like me can use it so there is no headache to it.

Does that make sense? I hope so.

[lerxstcat]

Re: Dedicated pedals -or- guitar processors?

[ QUOTE ]
I gave up the pedals and went with a Zoom 606...it sucks. It is too hard to adjust, I have had it for a few months and we just can't get along. The presets are mostly worthless, and the few I DO like are too far apart to switch between quickly. And I think it's smarter than me, cause I can't figure the damn thing out! I'm digging out my pedals...I'm glad I didn't sell them.

[/ QUOTE ]You can actually move the locations of the presets with that pedal, to take the ones you like and line them up next to each other; it's in the manual. also, look at the presets you don't like as much, and analyze them a bit. If you like one effect in the patch but not another, play with the parameters of the effect you don't like and see if you can get a better response, or turn that effect off in that patch if there's no parameter you like. You'd have to spend some time with the manual and tweaking the presets, but you could probably improve it a lot. Then again, Zoom isn't the top of the foodchain, but you'd be surprised what results a little tweak time may produce.