Wireless Systems - Advice

[Inearthed]

After talking it over a bunch with the frontman of the band I play bass in, he and I both have come to the conclusion that we need wireless systems for when we play live. I can already tell that the peanut gallery is preparing to type out lengthy responses of "You don't need that! What a waste of money!" but hear me out!

We're all about movement on stage when we play and I make my way all around the stage whenever I am performing, switching positions with the frontman and venturing over to the opposite side of the stage, visiting the drummer, and sometimes I even pay a visit to the stage sound guy to tell him to tweak some monitor levels. Currently, I run a little stomp box tuner from a 30 foot cable and put it down right in the middle of the stage (in front of the drums) and from there I run another 30 foot cable which usually gives me a fair amount of room to wander around the stage. The problem comes out of the fact that the front man / guitar player of our band likes to move around too, so every performance we have our chords get terribly tangled, or I end up getting my chord wrapped around his ankle from all the movement. This wouldn't be a problem if I also didn't do backing vocals and our last performance we constantly were untangling and I ended up not making it up to the mic in time to belt out the backing vocal parts.

My questions are as follows.
1. What are some good, reasonably priced wireless setups that are rack mountable, reliable, and have a good range? (we won't be playing arenas or anything but the wireless setup isn't going to be for small little bars)
2. Can I interchange the wireless system and use it for my other band where I play guitar?
3. One of my cable nazi friends told me that wireless systems degrade your tone heavily, I think he's full of it, who is right?
4. He also said that if anyone uses a two-way radio within a block of where you're playing your signal will be cut out. I know that is BS, but does that kind of thing happen?
5. Anyone have any experience with wireless systems?

Any advice or help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[RacerX]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

1. What are some good, reasonably priced wireless setups that are rack mountable, reliable, and have a good range?

OK, you're not gonna get all 5 of those. You gotta pay to play, man.

2. Can I interchange the wireless system and use it for my other band where I play guitar?

Sure why not? Although with stand-alone systems would be easier (as opposed to rack)

3. One of my cable nazi friends told me that wireless systems degrade your tone heavily, I think he's full of it, who is right?

I wouldn't say "heavily". Again, the more you pay, the less tone degradation. I'm no tone snob, but I don't hear much degradation with my $80 Electar Wireless.

4. He also said that if anyone uses a two-way radio within a block of where you're playing your signal will be cut out. I know that is BS, but does that kind of thing happen?

Not likely, but that will depend on the frequency you get, also if it's UHF or VHF. Again, that is a very sweeping statement, I'm starting to not like your "friend" he sounds like an opinionated ass! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] He's been watching Spinal Tap too many times! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


5. Anyone have any experience with wireless systems?

Yes

[Twisteramps]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

Greg Crowe has one of those $80 MusicYo wireless units, and it seems pretty cool. As part of my Christmas gift, I had my wife get me an AKG wireless that is usually $300 (MF had it for $149) so I thought I'd give it a shot. I need one so I can walk back away from the stage during soundchecks.

It sure isn't so I can run around onstage, I've been accused of loitering during a performance. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Oh well, I can play guitar one handed pretty well, I could go get my own drinks I guess instead of depending on a waitress to beer me.

Pete

[jacktheshredder]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

You can pick up a wireless fairly cheap on ebay rack or stand alone … I just grabbed a new rack mounted Samson VHFTD for under 100 bucks.

I also have a stand alone that I have had for 10+ years – it was also under 100 new it worked and still does work great and thus far I have had no problems with the rack mounted VHF unit.

I personally like to move around - I hate bands where the members are in a catatonic state – give me some stage presence.

The key is keeping a fresh battery in it [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[xenophobe]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

My experience with wireless: It's not going to sound the same as if you're plugged into a good cable, ever. Then again, I haven't tried any wireless systems in at least a half dozen years.

The signal does get altered, and you have to find a spot where you're comfortable... transmitter gain setting, receiver output level, etc... It's more noticable if you're playing straight into a high gain amp, as opposed to running some mild post-signal effects, reverb, chorus, overdrive, etc...

Just make sure you buy one somewhere they have a decent selection, and allow returns. Start cheap and work your way up until you found something that works for you.

[RacerX]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

Well I'd say try the Electar, it's dual diversity, made in Korea, and cheap enough to experiment with.

http://www.musicyo.com/product_specs.asp?pf_id=311

These used to be $79, they're so good Electar raised the price to $120, on sale for $99 now.

The other end of the scale is Sennheiser, but those retail for over $700.

[eaeolian]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

I have a Sennheiser Digital 1000 - bought here, from Strangletooth - and it's my favorite wireless, period. It's as transparent as any I've ever heard, has good range, and decent battery life. It's also rack-mountable.

If you can pick one up used, I'd recommend it.

Mike

[Matt Crooks]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

I've had a Shure LX series for years... battery life is over 20 hours, I've never had a drop out, and I've never noticed a tone difference. The ONLY place I use a wireless is in a live situation, so I don't know how I'd hear the difference if it is there (I assume it is). If I did critical listening tests in the studio, I could probably notice the difference between a top quality cable and the wireless, but that's not what they're for.

BTW, the shure is ~$500, so I don't know if that is reasonable or not. You get what you pay for though.

There's also a lot of debate in the Pro MI about UHF since the FCC has mandated all broadcast networks in major markets broadcast HD signals by 2008. HD TV is broadcast in UHF bands, so who knows if it's going to be a problem or not. There are some that say the sky is falling, and some that say it won't impact music wireless at all. I don't have an opinion, and since mine is VHF, I don't care.

I can tell you that I bought an Audio Technica UHF unit, and it sucked balls, so I got a replacement, and it sucked the exact same set of balls. So I returned it, got the Shure and have not looked back.

[RacerX]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

A lot of Audio Technica is made in China, so there you go.

[Matt Crooks]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of Audio Technica is made in China, so there you go.

[/ QUOTE ]

But their studio mics are great - the 40 and 30 series, dunno about the 20 series yet.

The 4033 (now the 4040 ?) is a great mic for guitar amps.

[Inearthed]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

Thanks for the responses. I'll post a reply here once I figure out what I'm going to get.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

i found a 1st gen sennheiser evolution at wellspent.org for 300 new! (back before the g2 came out)

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

I have a Sure LX wireless, that sadly is sitting on a shelf. Paid 600 bucks for it.

I never noticed a degradation of tone whatsoever in the different amps and preamps I've used. I used it all the time till I bought this damn CAE3+se preamp. Then I could EASILY tell if it was a George L cord or the wireless. Bummed me out big time. The CAE seems to hate wirelesses or at least will really display their shortcomings. Otherwise, until the CAE, I was as happy as a lark with my Sure LX.

I also hear the Sennheisers are outstanding as well.

[xenophobe]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

Once they figure out a way to send a wireless signal, and not have specific gain settings and output levels, and will send an exact signal from the guitar and into the preamp, I think I'd be ready to buy one. Guitars with a hot output signal EMGs, and other high gain passives seem to be affected more by signal coloring than lower gain pickups with moderate output.

I think it's hard to encode a boosted signal via EMG/PA2/Afterburner correctly, and have the receiver replicate that signal output without some kind of voltage or waveform alteration. At least enough to make me want to stick with a cable.

[Hollywood]

Re: Wireless Systems - Advice

I bought an X-Wire XR905 Digital Wireless Receiver about 4 years ago, and have had no problems with it. I haven't noticed any significant signal loss. If there is any, I can't tell. I think I paid $750 for it. Might be pricey to some, but I told myself I was getting a good one when I got another. So I did. It's light, no antennas, no adjustments. Just plug and play. I don't remember it cutting out at all. I even went from the stage to the bathroom (which was probably at least 100 feet away, and behind concrete walls of course) during setup, and it still sounded fine. I have used it for at least 30 shows. It has a battery life indicator too.... very cool! Starts at 11 hours....yes, it goes to 11! Might be hard to find, because Sennheiser bought them out and shut it down. Didn't see any on Ebay. Google it and you'll find reviews on Harmony Central, and this one http://www.activebass.com/resources/review.asp?i=3795 ..... Steve Vai has used them before, as well as Dave Weiner, who has played with Steve. There is a picture of it under Gear-FX-Racks on Dave's site. www.daveweiner.com or www.vai.com Didn't see any pics, but I saw some posts in his forum indicating this, and had been told that back when I bought it. Hope you find what you want! [img]/images/graemlins/band.gif[/img]