speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

[Fragle]

Hi all

i've got a question regarding my cabinet.
at the moment i'm running my mesa DC head through a laney 4x12 cabinet, loaded with HH speakers, delivering 300w RMS at either 4 or 16 ohm as well as 150w stereo at 8 ohm per side (i'm saying that because i have not found any information about this cabinet yet. i checked the laney website, but the cabs that look just like mine are one 200w 16ohm cabs).
obviously, the cabinet is kind of....sub par. it doesnt really do the mesa justice (and actually, it did not even do the matching laney gh head i used to play justice). it tends to have a certain upper midrange characteristic that is rather unpleasing which can't be dialed out. furthermore, it tends to sound somewhat messy or undefined at higher volumes, even though i'm only running a 50w head through it.

but i'm not sure if i should buy a whole new cabinet, or just replace the speakers with celestions. i opened the cabinet up and it looked pretty solid to me, but then again, i dont know jack about cabinets [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] my idea was to replace the HH speakers with 2 celestion GT75's and 2 vintage 30's wired in an X pattern. i checked the prices for speakers and GT75's cost 50euro, whereas the vintage30's cost 100 euro, which would add up to 300 euro for the combination listed above. i think if i sold those HHs on ebay i should get at least 50 euro for them. so all in all, replacing the speakers with quality ones would cost me about 250 euro.

on the other hand, i could also sell the whole cab (about 250euro), and buy one loaded with four vintage 30 speakers (depends on the condition of the cab (used, btw) as well as the brand, but usually vintage 30 cabs sell for 400-650 euro). so all in all, i'd have to pay about 400 euro.


but well....as i said above, i dont know jack about cabs, and maybe the laney one is made of crappy wood or whatever, so i'm not sure.

so what would you guys recommend me? and if you think buying another cab is the better solution, which type of cabinet would you recommend? (mesa rectifier? engl? Hughes and Kettner? Marshall?)

greets and thanks in advance

fragle

[zeegler]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

Well, assuming the cabinet is made of good solid plywood, and not particle board, you'd probably be better off just changing the speakers.

[joe web]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

hi fragle,
good question. i´ve tried different speaker-combinations until i found my favorite one. i play through a marshall 6100 100 watt head into a marshall 1960 equipped with 2xVintage 30 and 2x G12H30.
the combination of 2xG12T75 and 2xG12H30 sound ugly, the G12H30 was way louder the the G12T75. if you combine the G12T75 and the Vintage30 i think it would be the same problem, because the V30 has 100db sensitivity and the G12T75 only 97db.
i belive bogner build a cab. like that but i´m not quite sure what to think about it.
a 4xvintage30 cab would be a good choise i think.
i would suggestion you to take your amp to your local musicstore and plug it into different cabs so you can here the differences between a G12M/G12T75/Vintage30, and of course between a Marshall/Mesa/Engl cab.
the mesa is larger than the 1960 marshall and because of that the sound changes a bit, even if there are the same speakers in it.

btw. where do you live in bavaria?

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

If it were me I'd just sell the cab and get a different one rather than replace all the speakers, unless you can get them dirt cheap. Better speakers could solve the problem but cabinet design, construction and materials (wood used, thickness etc) all are important. If your cab is built well (sorry I never had any Laney stuff) then replacing the speakers could help.

What DC do you have? A nice speaker for Mesa is the C90 which is a celestion built 80 for Mesa. I have a DC-5 combo with a C90 and another 1x12 widebody ext cab with a C90 in it and those speakers are killer with the DC-5.

I would look at selling your cab and just get a new one. I guess you need to do the math and figure out what would be your safest and cheapest way to get the best bang for the buck. I don't know the prices for this stuff in your country so I really can't offer much help.

[Mordor]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

The laney cab is pretty solid,but its size could be an issue.It's smaller than a marshall so I would buy a new cab.

[Fragle]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

joe web: ich wohn in so nem ziemlich kleinen ort genau zwischen aschaffenburg und würzburg.....also unterfranken [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

shawn lutz: I've got a DC5 head. the Celestion 90's are really hard to find here in germany, by the way.

mordor: is it, really? to me it doesn't appear any smaller than a 1960 cab


i'm looking for a cab with a nice sweet midrange and not too much topend. apparently, i'm one of the very few guitar players who doesn't scoop the midrange on those older mesa heads. actually, í'm usually running my mids way high and give it a slight midboost with the 5 band eq....guess i like the lower midrange voicing of mesas better than the high midrange voiced marshalls. my cabinet should support this voicing.

when i was looking for a new amp, i tried the peavey triple XXX with different cabs, namely the rectifier 412 with vintage30s, the 1960A marshall and the 1960TV marshall with greenbacks. i thought the greenbacks were great for clean playing, because they had a really quick response, but they didn't cut it for heavy rhythm playing. the rectifier cab sounded like ass to me; it seemed like all it delivered was harsh topend, the mids were practically non existant, the bass was alright, though. i liked the 1960A cabinet best..but then again, that was with the triple xxx head.

umm....let's put it this way: when dialing in sounds, i usually bring the high midrange (2200hz) WAY down, because that particular frequency sounds really HARSH when boosted. on the other hand, scooping those high mids makes the sound feel distant and the amp doesn't cut through very well. so it would be cool if i could bring up those high mids without having to deal with ear piercing harshness.

greets
fragle

[toejam]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

I think GT75s and Vintage 30s sound great together. Go for it! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Celestion also has soundclips of their speakers on their site. www.celestion.com

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

Usually a used cab with good speakers is cheaper to buy than the speakers themselves...

I'd generally recommend the MESA cab if you can get one. Or a nice Marshall with Celestions. Check out the diff between 75s and 30 watt celestions though... They both have their attractions.

[Mordor]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

[ QUOTE ]

mordor: is it, really? to me it doesn't appear any smaller than a 1960 cab

[/ QUOTE ]

well,if you got the same laney cab I had (gh50l matchin cab) then yes,it is a bit smaller than a 1960A.As I told you I have both cabs in my rehersal room!

[Ace]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

[ QUOTE ]
I think GT75s and Vintage 30s sound great together. Go for it! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Celestion also has soundclips of their speakers on their site. www.celestion.com

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't find the sound clips.

[Tooling]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

If you want to buy the last cab you'll need....get a Bogner and be done w/it. You can experiment with different speakers by picking up a pair, trying them out and if they are to your liking sell the two you took out etc. I would suggest the 4x12 loaded w/ V30's.

[jgcable]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

V30's are the way to go whether you get a new cabinet or not. Especially for a Mesa DC.

[Tooling]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

Just a follow up and this is just my opinion based on my buying/selling experience looking for, "my", sound.

I'll start by saying I generally dislike Mesa cabs...they are too stiff sounding to me but they posess good tight bass. Cabs are basically no different than amps...you either like EL34's or 6L6's...IN GENERAL, if you prefer EL34's you are probably simply a Marshall guy. I've had many 6l6/KT88 based amplifiers that basically sounded friggin' good but there was just something always missing...a certain character. The only way to learn this is to try out an s-load of different amps. Cabs are no different...are you Marshall or Fender? I use a Bogner amp w/Bogner cabs because they are the best sounding Marshall based amps and cabs I've heard. I'm not trying to get too deep into this but it really is that simple...decide what side your on and then research cabs based upon your preference . I would say that if you are looking to start this ,"search" and end it for good start with the basic cab construction relating to it's inherent, "side" and you can fine tune it from there w/different speaker choices. V30's sound ass to me in a Mesa cab but sound pretty damn good in the Bogner cab etc. If you prefer the Marshall side of things and you buy a Mesa cab...I don't care what speaker you drop in it you will always be without that, "something", because you didn't start from your, "base preference". To confuse things further you may prefer a mixture of both Fender and Marshall but if you know what side you're on...you're potentially ahead of the game out of the gate. [img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[Tooling]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

Just a follow up and this is just my opinion based on my buying/selling experience looking for, "my", sound.

I'll start by saying I generally dislike Mesa cabs...they are too stiff sounding to me but they posess good tight bass. Cabs are basically no different than amps...you either like EL34's or 6L6's...IN GENERAL, if you prefer EL34's you are probably simply a Marshall guy. I've had many 6l6/KT88 based amplifiers that basically sounded friggin' good but there was just something always missing...a certain character. The only way to learn this is to try out an s-load of different amps. Cabs are no different...are you Marshall or Fender? I use a Bogner amp w/Bogner cabs because they are the best sounding Marshall based amps and cabs I've heard. I'm not trying to get too deep into this but it really is that simple...decide what side your on and then research cabs based upon your preference . I would say that if you are looking to start this ,"search" and end it for good start with the basic cab construction relating to it's inherent, "side" and you can fine tune it from there w/different speaker choices. V30's sound ass to me in a Mesa cab but sound pretty damn good in the Bogner cab etc. If you prefer the Marshall side of things and you buy a Mesa cab...I don't care what speaker you drop in it you will always be without that, "something", because you didn't start from your, "base preference". To confuse things further you may prefer a mixture of both Fender and Marshall but if you know what side you're on...you're potentially ahead of the game out of the gate. [img]/images/graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

Quote:
i'm looking for a cab with a nice sweet midrange and not too much topend...end quote......you are a Marshall guy my friend [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: speaker replacement vs. buying a new cab

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think GT75s and Vintage 30s sound great together. Go for it! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Celestion also has soundclips of their speakers on their site. www.celestion.com

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't find the sound clips.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm. [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] They used to have soundclips.