The Downfall of Line 6?

[Lordofgain]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Ok, I am a little late in reading the thread, but I GOTTA get my 2 cents in on this one lol.

Everybody hears music differently period!!!
My favorite band growing up was Rush. My mother with whom I shared many rock bands that we both enjoyed couldn't stand Geddy's voice. To her it sounded like a cat mewling. To me it was the sound of my generation!

When I was playing live I used some of the crappiest equipment known to man and would get complemented on my sound. Crazy huh?

I haven't played live in awhile but have much better equipment these days.
I own both kinds.
Vetta combo at Vetta specs.
Engl Savage 120 head
JCM800 Trace modded 50 watt head
Fender 59' reissue Bassman

They all have their uses. I think this whole discussion on the tube snobbery front is a load of shit!!!!!!

Having used both I love the versatility of the Vetta.
I love the sound of my tube heads.

Cleve, Pete is just trying to tell you that he has used both live. Not once did he say that the Vetta's SLO setting sounded as good as the real thing or whatever. He is just saying that having used both the Vetta CAN be more versatile. That is not to say it is easy. I have a much easier time dialing in good sounds on my Engl because there aren't so many parameters as on the Vetta. But I'll bet if you took enough time you could find some very sweet spots on that amp.

Also if I were to gig live again I would much rather have some drunken dumbass (whether from Oklahoma or Cleveland) knock over my Vetta rather than my Engl.
Knocking over the Vetta will just get your ass kicked. Knocking over my Engl would put your dumbass in a hospital!!

BTW just my own opinion of course which matters not but I personally think that dual rectos sound like crap!! I can never hear them in the mix at a live event like I can other tube heads ala Marshall, Bogner, Engl etc.

[jgcable]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

We had the same arguement regarding fuel injection when it first came out. It had its glitches but the diehard carburetor guys never accepted it and they still drive their carbureted 60's muscle cars around and unfortunately for them any punk with a WRT/STI or an EVO or a Mustang SVT Cobra or an SRT-4 will blow the majority of them off both the road or the drag strip. Technology is what drives this and all businesses. Modeling is new technology. Heck.. computers are relatively new technology. Lots of people snubbed them too. Why do you think that more and more companies are introducing modeling amps or processors? It's the future for most and it is the present in most recording studios. I will take an educated guess and say that the vast majority of bands use some sort of modeling in the studio. It is just a matter of time before it blankets the live settings as well. You all have good points but the plain fact of the matter is that the Vetta 2 is a monster of an amp that can handle any situation and holds it own against any amp or processor on the planet in the studio or live.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Just because one prefers tube amps doesn't mean they are tube snobs. Tone is so subjective and personal to the player. If you can get your tone out of a stomp box into a ghetto blaster and are happy with your sound then so be it.

The modeler debate is the same as the tube vs. solid state, same things are being said. Its just a matter of which choice you are happy with, what works for one doesn't work for everyone.

I sometimes thinks guitarist put way too much time in analyzing every nuance of tone. 98.9% of your audience doesn't care what you are playing through. Most of your tone is in your hands anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I had some positive feedback on my J-Station tone and thought it sucked, and had bad comments about my tube amp tone that I thought was pretty cool...bottom line is I play to please myself and my ears, not people who have way too much time on their hands tearing down every little aspect of tone [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Tetsuo]

No More Pissing Matches...

WTF Guys... This was a serious question on what would improve the Vetta. Really if you are biased to the Vetta I would say ignore teh topic because we have all heard the "tubes" comments.

Anyway lets get back to task and peace... All who have chimed in do you think a new power section would be the next logical step in improving the Vetta's sound

[jgcable]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Back to the topic.. I think the Vetta has a well built and extremely powerful power section (so does the HD147). Very few would need more sheer volume or "air pushing" than the Vetta provides. I have had many Line 6 products and have never had a problem with any of them.

[Tetsuo]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Where as I am not talking about the overall power but maybe the feel of the power amp... Comparing Solid State to Solid State the Zenterra seems to have a better feel and responsiveness compared to the Vetta by people who OWN both. I think the models and features are fantastic but the power and feel of it can be enhanced...

[nor]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

I can't shake the feeling I've read this thread at least twice before...

[jgcable]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

More than that bro. I can also tell you that the same people post the same stuff everytime too.

[Twisteramps]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

back to the tube amp feel thing...

You can get a lot of the feel from the vetta and other modellers with careful use of the compressors within the modelling amps. Also, what is considered a tube amp 'feel'? It's mostly compression and bloom.

I just look at modelling amps as another type of amp. I never tried to get a lot of sag/compression/feel from my VHT either, and it was an all tube amp - it just didn't have the same feel a cranked marshall or a cranked fender tweed would have - the VHT was pretty much relentless and sag-free even when stupendously loud.

And this is at least the third time for this.... it's like a tradition. Me and Cleve smack each other around for a bit, then it all fades until next time. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I'd love to put a meter on a valvetronix amp and check the tube socket to see if the thing is really doing anything or if it's like my Behringer 'tube' preamp that has a friggin' LED behind it to make it light up and runs something like 12volts where a real tube amp has 150 - 300 volts.

I've heard the same thing about the Zentera amp too - but it uses a pair of sharc processors like the Vetta. Supposedly the Vetta has a lot of horsepower left untapped - it would be nice if they could use it to improve the tone/feel a bit and not just add another 2 dozen amps. 74 is PLENTY.

Pete

[Deneb]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

I'm personally biased here. People love Rectos and they hate them. I play right now in a one guitar band, and I cut through the mix fine. when we had two guitarists, I cut through just fine.

If by power of the amp for the modelling stuff, do you mean, it doesn't seem like it has enough nuts for how many watts it is? Have you had the amp completely cranked? That and are they rating the 150 watt or 300 watts of the amp as output power, or are they just calling it a 300 watt amp...some of those FX I imagine would rob some of those watts (unless they are purely specified as output wattage). Which would raise the brow to, are some amp models louder than others at the same volume? Meaning you have to push for them? And if that's the case, maybe only the highest output models are the ones rated at that wattage.

Okay, that was just senseless rambling, because honestly, I don't OWN the HD147 or the Vetta 2 or 1 so I can't comment on that. I've heard them, and that's about it.

I can say one thing...they look stupid, doesn't mean they're not cool, just look uncool.

Computers are new technology, and so is modelling, with both I can agree, and in time the digital sounds can only get better, but it's the same with recording, SOOOOOO much time and money has been invested in making great digital recordings, and there's just something they can't replicate from analog.

[lantz_c]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Regarding servicing, I had one of those crappy Line6 amp modeling pedals crap out on me. It was still under warranty so I had to take it to a local electronic shop which did work for Line6 to be serviced. The Tech at the shop decided the unit needed to be replaced; it took nearly 8 months for me to receive the replacement unit from Line6. The Tech at the electronics shop also indicated that it took quite some time to receive parts from Line6 when he needed them.

Probably not everyone would have problems like this getting their Line6 stuff serviced and maybe warranty claims take longer to handle, but that kind of turnaround time is not acceptable for a working musician. Now a tube amp I would be able to take to most any tech and have it serviced and back to me within a week at the most if need be, unless there was something seriously wrong with it.

[Twisteramps]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding servicing, I had one of those crappy Line6 amp modeling pedals crap out on me. It was still under warranty so I had to take it to a local electronic shop which did work for Line6 to be serviced. The Tech at the shop decided the unit needed to be replaced; it took nearly 8 months for me to receive the replacement unit from Line6. The Tech at the electronics shop also indicated that it took quite some time to receive parts from Line6 when he needed them.

Probably not everyone would have problems like this getting their Line6 stuff serviced and maybe warranty claims take longer to handle, but that kind of turnaround time is not acceptable for a working musician. Now a tube amp I would be able to take to most any tech and have it serviced and back to me within a week at the most if need be, unless there was something seriously wrong with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

8 months is inexcusable for ANY gear: However, ANY warranty repairs of tube amps is also going to be dependent on parts availability from the manufacturer. Back in the early 90s, I had a Mesa .50 EL84 head that needed major work - my local repair shop took two months to get to it, then said they couldn't fix it (had PCB damage) so it went to mesa and I got it back from them 4 months after that. DOH.

I knew a guy with a JCM900 that had a transformer go out - took Marshall 3 months to send the replacement to the warranty shop.

Still, 8 months is pretty craptacular.

Pete

[hippietim]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

I'd venture a guess that I've had as many or more modeling devices as anyone here. Starting with the Rocktron Chameleon which did cabinet modeling, Roland VG-8/VG-8EX/VG-88/GS-10, Line 6 Bass POD/POD Pro/PODxt/Vetta II (and a few Variax guitars), Vox Tonelab, and a few Sansamps. I've also owned a number of tube amps over the years an original piss loud Orange, Marshall JMP/JCM 800/1987x, Soldano HR50, Dr. Z Carmen Ghia/KT45/Maz Sr, Fender Pro Junior/Blues Junior/Deluxe Reverb, Rivera TBR-SL, Mesa Boogie MK 1 (original not reissue)/Subway Rocket Reverb, Carvin X100B, and more I can't even remember from "back in the day". I've had a number of solid state amps - Lab Series, Musicman solid state/tube hybrid, Acoustic 134 and 150, Gallien Krueger little combo, and a couple Peaveys and Yamahas.

All I can say is I was able to get workable tones out of all that stuff. I have no particular preference overall because I think they all have a place.

I only sold my Vetta because for what I was using it for the PODxt was plenty and my rack setup has replaced the Vetta for my loud gadgety craving.

[Tetsuo]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

[ QUOTE ]


I've heard the same thing about the Zentera amp too - but it uses a pair of sharc processors like the Vetta. Supposedly the Vetta has a lot of horsepower left untapped - it would be nice if they could use it to improve the tone/feel a bit and not just add another 2 dozen amps. 74 is PLENTY.

Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

That si exactly what I am talking about. It is more response than tone though IMO. I just wonder if the Poweramp is the main culprit. I think they have used the same power amp since the Flex Heads if I am not mistaken. I would rather see them refine that than get another 24 amp models

[Ace]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

You can stand behind the Vetta all day long, but I hope no one here is endorsing the VeryAss(variax). Those things SUCK. No matter what is claims to sound like, that is one ugly crappy guitar that plays like a Hondo left out in the garage for 20 years.