The Downfall of Line 6?

[ranalli]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]

Why hasn’t this thread been locked yet?

[/ QUOTE ]


What's the obsession with locking threads on this forum when people disgree or someone isn't saying "nice guitar dude".

[markD]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

i have an unrelated question. i've been reading this for the past couple of days and have noticed a couple people talking about having beer spilled into their amps by drunken patrons. has this ever happened to someone? i am wondering because the venues (fancy term for bars and clubs) where i play don't have easy access for drunken 'tards to get on the stage, or near the stage...

so i was wondering if this has actually happened to anyone.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

with all this talk aboutbout power sections...

what do yall think about running the PODxt Live into the fx return of say a mesa .50cal (el84)?

i am looking for an all-in-one but i don't want to give up my tubes.

[sevser]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Not that my opinion means much here but...

I was one of those guys who actually liked the SS tone over any tube tones I had heard until I realized it was because I was playing at bedroom levels. The tone from SS amps (I know we are talking Modeling but I'll get there) pushed to any kind of jamming level is just harsh and lacks dynamics. So I get me a couple tube amps and I am now happy when jamming or playing live. I would like nothing better than to not have to deal with tubes at all. I don't like the typical thing most tube snobs like about their tube amps either, like driving the power section for that break up tone. I hate it, so I need lots of headroom to get volume without driving the power amp too hard but still driving it hard enough to get that attack.

So then I hear a couple of recordings guys like Pete made and decide to get me a V-Amp 2 for recording at home. I come to the conclusion that for direct recording the modeling stuff may be better than the real thing as it is easier than messing around with mics, cabs and a good place to record. Now as we (Steve and I) are almost done recording our next demo using Line 6 Pods with an awesome engineer I am hearing a definite “Amp modeling” sound. It’s something familiar with all the modeling equipment weather recorded or just playing around. I can tell when band record with it right away. It’s a puffy/compressed sound that’s trying to achieve the tube like character that I don’t like…”Driven power amp”. So I can understand why may tube enthusiast are liking the modeling stuff but it’s not for everyone and if someone wants to point out why it doesn’t work for them that’s only going to help the goal of making a better “mouse trap” so what if the opinions are harsh, relax and don’t take it so personally. (And cat5 is sh!t I use it so much I have to have industrial sized roll of the crap in my surveillance room. I crimp my own ends on and the ends are the pain not the wire so much…My opinion based on MUCH experience)

and for the limited tube amp experience I happen to agree with most of Cleves opinions on tone and have learned more from him than anyone else because we obviously look for similar tones as we both come from the "VH tone influenced who went in a heavy/progressive direction after hearing Bay area thrash bands school of thought" (or something like that) [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] This being the whole thing here…Tone AND how you get it is a matter of personal pref. So if someone has a similar expectation for their equipment that is who you want to learn from. Pete knows how to build an amp, play the Mr Crowley solo note for note (As well as many others) and that serves well for most of the people on this forum but to say Cleve has little experience is just BS! His experience come from other places and it all serves to help us all with out search for tone as does Pete’s. To say Modeling amps have their own sound and are not all based on other amps makes no sense because they are “modeling amps” and even the “Unique” patches are still based on different amp and cabinet characteristics and are for the purpose of making a SS amp sound like a tube amp. I have to reload my Sys file way too much to chance using my modeling amp live. I set it up and brought it to the studio to find it was all scrambled. Easy fix…Once I got home! The hardware and software are more fragile than most good tube amps and that’s just common sense. Hey some of us don’t find it to be close enough for their ears. So what! No offence to Pete but, building amps doesn’t make your ears better. If you play covers than having a Vettas flexibility and practicality out weighs bringing a tube amp out for sure. I would do the same if that’s what I was doing.

I would love to have a Vetta and play with all the options, mixing amps and such, but I can’t get passed that sound that I’m hearing, or not hearing with all the other modeling amps I have heard. BTW I have my ears tested yearly and I have perfect hearing.

Pete and Cleve both have a wealth of experiance and I have learned a ton/tone from both of you. I just happen to have more in common to Cleve.
[img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[thenine]

Re: Dave

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] yeah! what he said! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Tetsuo]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
with all this talk aboutbout power sections...

what do yall think about running the PODxt Live into the fx return of say a mesa .50cal (el84)?

i am looking for an all-in-one but i don't want to give up my tubes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the 20/20 with a POD was one of the best sounds I had heard... That was EL84 just didn't ahve enough headroom for my band (we had a loud ass drummer and for some reason practiced about twice as loud as when we played live...)

I used a PODPro with a VHT2150 and was pleased. POD through my ENGL sounds good too..

Now as has been said tweaking Line 6 products is essential. Pete mentioned the compressors. The Line 6 compressor (Juice) is so helpful in getting good tone. So if you plug your POD in just realize the first sounds may not be good you will have to work with it to find good tone but I think you will be pleased if you put some time in

[slo100]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

I think acts of God, faulty house wiring, and outright theft are bigger dangers to amps than beer. If there are people near enough your backline to spill drinks *into* your amp I think there are bigger issues going down at your gig to be concerned with! [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Read V's post about power failure; they had a bunch of chicks come onstage with bottles of champagne shaking and spraying (although his SVT actually died BEFORE that, but his DI to the PA died at the point of the wet champagne chicks). In the real world ofrowdy clubs, it happens. I've even seen it at outdoor gigs where the band was on a flatbed; his own g/f spilled a beer into his nice 50 watt JMP head. POOF! gone! So it happens all the time.... I will agree that club wiring and theft are big dangers, that's why regulated power protection and roadies with tire irons are important! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
i have an unrelated question. i've been reading this for the past couple of days and have noticed a couple people talking about having beer spilled into their amps by drunken patrons. has this ever happened to someone? i am wondering because the venues (fancy term for bars and clubs) where i play don't have easy access for drunken 'tards to get on the stage, or near the stage...

so i was wondering if this has actually happened to anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the better places to play around here actually forces the patrons to walk right through the middle of the band to access the bathrooms. They have a 6 month waiting list for bands to play there.

[BigDaddyD]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

That is pretty common around here. People have to walk right by or through the band to get to the bathroom at some small bars in NYC. I remember seeing a client's band play in queens. The place was tiny and the band was awesome. They played covers and when they did ACDC and GNR it sounded like ACDC and GNR. They put on a great show only to have some drunk idiot standing and wobbling (dancing) 2inches from the singer everytime he had to go to the bathroom.

[lerxstcat]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Dave,

I have the greatest respect for Cleve as well as Pete, but suggesting Pete might not hae a great ear just because he builds amps? Dude, how do you think he learned all those great licks he posts? You couldn't get tab for that stuff in our formative years, you had to learn it by ear.

It seems to me what Pete is saying is that John doesn't have much experience with modeling amps recently, or experience playing out live with them. The basement ref may be a little sharp, but it's valid in that John has spoken about observations of others using the stuff live, but hasn't used them himself. John being a computer guy, would've known what
the foot controller cords were if he'd ever looked at one, therefore would know that, crap or not, you can buy one anywhere. Instead he stressed that as a if it goes out, you're fukked" point. That doesn't impugn the experience he has, but it does show he made a comment on something he hadn't ever personally looked at.

John is just virulently anti-modeler, which is his right, but he's very free with snide remarks to those who have a use for them. He seems to see Pete as a "Tube traitor" because he uses the Vetta in some situations, and says so in his comments. Then Pete in turn points out that he's actually playing out all the time, and uses the amps, didn't just check them out in the music store when they first came out. For someone who needs versatility at the gig, but doesn't have the time, money or room to own $50,000 worth of different amplifiers and effects, the Vetta is a useful tool. If were using one and someone decided to cut down my 32 years of guitar-playing experience because he didn't like the amp or guitar I am using, I'll reply in kind too. In
fact, my first posts here were fighting with Pete about Carvin guitars and amps, wich love but both he and Cleve detest! Still in all I learned a lot from his posts and his written knowledge and playing clips tell me he is completely deserving of respect. still disagree about Carvins with him, but would never say he doesn't have a good ear to argue
against his use of modelers. I would say that
since he wasn't always crazy about them, that they have improved as he's kept his ears and mind open. If they're not for you, fine. Just don't take the next step of dissing someone else who has at least as much cred if he disagrees and finds good use for them.

I imagine you and Steve disagree on this since he likes the Behringer V-Ampire, eh?

[Lordofgain]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
i have an unrelated question. i've been reading this for the past couple of days and have noticed a couple people talking about having beer spilled into their amps by drunken patrons. has this ever happened to someone? i am wondering because the venues (fancy term for bars and clubs) where i play don't have easy access for drunken 'tards to get on the stage, or near the stage...

so i was wondering if this has actually happened to anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

AL's Bar in L.A. anyone or Raji's for that matter

[Lordofgain]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

BTW: alot of talk about this whole "ear" thing. I know alot of guys have played out a lot on this board. I don't how old everybody is but I am almost 40 and have been around a lot of loud music for a long time. Having said that be aware that a lot of my formative years whether as a spectator or a player was done in the "Cambrian" era of geologic time before the dangers to your hearing were ever really understood.
My personal hearing is FUKKED!!! I know there are frequencies that I am just not hearing anymore and I am ok with that.
The question is for all of you out there that claim to have a "great ear" how many of you can honestly say that with the exception of the young guns here in their early 20's who haven't totally destroyed their's yet?

[sevser]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...


Lerx; I'm glad you pointed that ear thing out cuz I wasn't suggesting he didn't have a great ear. I just meant its not necessarily better because his amp knowledge, it's still subjective. I also was speaking of tone and personal taste, not pitch. Just to clear that up.

As far as Steve and I go, we disagree on some things of course, but I think the V-Ampire was a good move for his practicing and teaching he still uses his XXL for gigs and it's the best SS amp I have heard BUT...I sure don't like being directly in front of it during practice! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I think everyone could use a unit like the V-ampire and as I mentioned I have the V-Amp 2 hooked up to my CPU for recording ideas and practice. saves on the wear and tear of my tubes. The only thing I dislike is that inherent "Trying to be tube" sound I hear compared to my tube amps.

LOG; I take good care and I have an endless supply of ear plugs. I don’t care how unmetal I looked at the Motorhead concert I was at last…My ears come first.

I also don’t crank my music at home or in my vehicle.

[img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

I have great respect for Pete and Cleve as well but with any subjective opinions, unless they come from God, should be taken with a grain of salt. They are opinions plain and simple regardless of experience or knowledge. I listen and value a lot of opinions on gear from folks here (and quite enjoy a good debate) but ultimately one needs to form their own opinions and not preach that their opinions are "it" especially when dealing with something as subjective as tone...