The Downfall of Line 6?

[Tetsuo]

HEre is where I think Line 6 Products fail a little. I think it is in the power section. The Zenterra seems to have less options and maybe more processiong power (both use 2 SHARC chips) so maybe that has a little to do with it but I think it is in the pwoer section. Not saying they needa tube power section but a better solid state one even like teh Zebnterra would help some of the feel IMO. Not that the Vetta is bad but I think that would be the biggest upgrade to the amp. I think they are still using the same power amp they had designed for the Flex II head.

[noodlesatf]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

This has always been my biggest problem with Line 6. I think the PODs are great, but their power amps just plain suck.

[Tetsuo]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

I don't think they suck but I think they truly have enough features and options and just need to focus on the power section now to upgrade a stellar product

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Their power amp sections are made acceptably, and 300 watts is enough power, it's just the inherent psychoacoustic of solid state stuff. They just don't appear to have the punch or move the same amount of air when distorted. I'm sure the actual DB level is the same, I think it is the way people "hear" it. There is some good stuff about perceived volume from tube amps due to how you perceive certain accenuated harmonics in a tube power amp, especially with distorted waveforms.

Check this article and maybe it will offer some input for thoughts on the subject.

http://www.milbert.com/tstxt.htm

[noodlesatf]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Actually, I said they suck because I have seen more Line 6 amps in for service on the power section (all three times I had to take my AX2 in) than every other manufacturer combined. One of the guys at Music Technology told me that becoming a Line 6 authorized service center added a sharp rise in revenue for the amp repair department.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

I was trying to be nice, and so trying not to be my usual line 6 basher self, haahaha... Glad you said it before I did...

I had my personaly feeling they were so-so constructed. But, didn't have the actual data or info to back up my hatred, other than their seemingly strange lack of ability to push air like a tube amp.

Just wait till the proprietary DSP chips starts taking a dump and no one has them. Hehe...

[Tetsuo]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

John I don't think it wil,l be that big of an issue beacuse the Line 6 crowd seems to be a throw away update type crowd. They buy the purposed updates so I don't think that there will be a slew of guys out there with old Tech complaining about it because they ahve already dropped 2500 on teh new Vetta III or Vetta IV saving 3000 for the Vetta 5 coming out the following year

[chrisolson]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

AX2's always seem to have problems, however I haven't had any issues with any Line 6 amps that I've owned.

[Twisteramps]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

C'mon guys. I can't remember what year the Vetta came out, but it was updated for FREE to II specs, it only lacks the VDI output. This is about as far as you can get from a 'throw away' amp as it gets.

I didn't get a free update on my Soldano, VHT, Budda, Marshalls, Fenders or other amps. Did any JCM800 owners get a 900 upgrade? *er, if you wanted one...* etc.

I've had no problems with my Vetta, Pod, Pod XT at all, and my amps get played a lot and not abused but not carried around in a road case either.

The 'lack of ability to push air' on at least the Vettas and the HD series is wrong. I'm not going to defend the flextones or anything else, just the models I'm familiar with and have used. My vetta works live just as well as the plethora of tube amps I've owned in the past and will probably own in the future. Hell, I run my Vetta HD at half power (because if I don't the master volume can be touchy at low settings) and I've never had it above 9 o'clock. My Soldano HR50+ was HALF WAY up at band rehearsal, the Vetta was at 9, and the Vetta cut through better. The guys in the band preferred it. I like how the soldano records, but for live it's a backup only until I get that XT live, then I may sell it off.

Pete

[Tetsuo]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Pete I do think Line 6 amps are throw away although teh Vetta II upgrade was kind and I know my L6 amp and the Flex III and HD147 are flash upgradeable. Consider teh AX2 though that is a throw away IMO... anyway The upgrade issue will be when the new processors come out in the V3 or V4. I know being a former Vetta owner and a Line 6 guy deep down that I would sell my old amp and jump to the V3 if it was an upgrade like 1 to 2 was. I think most Line 6 guys are that way too.

[jgcable]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

The Vetta can push enough air to make you and most of the crowd deaf with the volume on 5. It absolutely 100% pushes as much "air" as the Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, the 5150 or the JCM800 #2210 that we have in the studio. No BS. It is a frikkin monster. Trust me.

[Twisteramps]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

[ QUOTE ]
Pete I do think Line 6 amps are throw away although teh Vetta II upgrade was kind and I know my L6 amp and the Flex III and HD147 are flash upgradeable. Consider teh AX2 though that is a throw away IMO... anyway The upgrade issue will be when the new processors come out in the V3 or V4. I know being a former Vetta owner and a Line 6 guy deep down that I would sell my old amp and jump to the V3 if it was an upgrade like 1 to 2 was. I think most Line 6 guys are that way too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see the 'throw away' comment if the amp suddenly quit working and you couldn't get parts. I can understand that.

But how many people threw away their 800s when the 900 marshalls came out? Or threw away Mark II boogies to get IIIs? Etc...

Just because there is a newer version of something doesn't mean that the 'old' one is instantly disposable. Well, at least not in my world. Some of the L6 guys ARE technology junkies, but that speaks about them, not the product.

Pete

[Tetsuo]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

[ QUOTE ]

Just because there is a newer version of something doesn't mean that the 'old' one is instantly disposable. Well, at least not in my world. Some of the L6 guys ARE technology junkies, but that speaks about them, not the product.

Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

That really is my pointmost of the L6 users are those guys IMO, at least at the institute of noise they seem to be. And in fairness there is a difference in an upgrade from a Line 6 product (which always seems to be considered an upgrade) instead of a Marshall or Mesa which seems to be a different amp if ya follow that logic...

[Newc]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

If you know you're hearing a solid state amp and you already don't like solid state amps, or you've got a boutique tube amp that you really love, you're not going to like a solid state amp no matter how good it really sounds.
So the AX2 has repair issues; Wasn't that the $300 model anyway? OR am I thinking about another brand?
Anyhoo, a cheap amp is a cheap amp.

Duplicating the tone of a tube amp is simply a matter of EQ, it has nothing to do with glass and hot tungsten.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

When a reasonably small company makes a VERY complex amp with proprietary chips, you can kiss the amp goodbye if one of those chips fail and the chips aren't available either because the company is gone, or they just don't support that particular tech any more.

Even Rocktron isn't supporting a bunch of stuff that you can't find chips for now. ADA flangers and MP-1 are notorious for being useless when they fail and the DSP processor is poofed.

Your Soldano or (whatever tube amp) fries something, you can source any part in it from anywhere.

And if you bother to read that article I posted, it explains quite well the perceived difference between distorted solid state and tube technology.

I've heard bands using Vettas that were so loud they were really hard on the ears, yet you weren't hearing it right, like it wasn't cutting through. I'm sure the DBs were there, they just weren't gettiung through the mix so well.

Michael Romeo is one I've heard with just that problem. He sounded great live with his MESA rectos (though I'm not a fan of them) and with his Vettas, he was considerably less in your face with them. Even his bass player was agreeing with me when we talked about it and wanted him to use the MESAs again. I won't mention too much about that laughable modular phone like cabling on the Line 6 controller. Cool when your Michael Romeo and have a few free ones laying around to take up slack, but a basic working musician would be having a cry when it was going intermittent.

Sorry, just not a fan, and for good reason.