The Downfall of Line 6?

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

YEah, that's true. I guess I'm just thinking of my stuff. The CAE3+se and VHT 2150 are pretty basic circuitry even without a schematic actually. Much of it, I could fix myself given the parts. Not much in the way of circuit cards there, haha. Pre 80s technology for the most part .

But, I certainly wouldn't touch a Uberschall after seeing what they look like inside. So, yes, Ye olde Hicktown tech would be absolutely boggled by much of that type of thing that as well.

[Twisteramps]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

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Pete, cap on my knowledge, whatever. But, I've heard your amps, and my idea of tone truly isn't what you think is good tone by any means.

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I'm not building amps to play metal with. People who have purchased amps from me like them very much. If all I needed was an amp that just did high gain well, I would have kept my VHT. I didn't see a need to reinvent the wheel when VHT, Soldano and Bogner (among others) make a terrific high gain head in a market that is saturated to death. Building an amp is NOT cheaper than buying one if somebody already builds something at a decent price that has the tone you want. Plus 99% of those high gain heads are NOT turret board wired - most of them are assembled on PCB. Not knocking it, I'm just not wanting to build a 'hand made' head and stuff the damned thing with a PCB and computer caps. To try to build a bogner ecstacy on turret board would be freaking insane. Besides, for what I'd have to charge to wire something like that up, I might as well try to sell an amp a year for stupid money.

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I could certainly see why you went Vetta, much easier than getting a good tube sound. I know that isn't always easy.

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Why does it have to be a good TUBE sound? Why can't it just be a good sound? This is what drives me nuts with you guys - if the amp doesn't have a tube in it, then it has to be bad. Your fear of knowledge and technology doesn't serve you.

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Glad you're the tube guru here, oh wait, the tube guru that went to a modeller to get a good sound. Sorry, I forgot.

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Never claimed to be a tube guru. However, I'm open minded and intelligent enough to consider any tonal options at my disposal. If I had a real SLO, would I prefer the Vetta version over it? No. The Vetta is a way for me to get a good solid tone and flexibility that for most of us isn't feasible. I figure whatever works, works. Psst, I also built pedals for some guys to stick in front of their toob amps that are solid state.

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For what it's worth (not much I see)

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Blindness and ignorance fit you like a glove.

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I'll figure that most guys that play guitar don't know that the cable is a cat5 cable. Including Mike Romeo who complained about them and the jack.

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Yeah, it really sucks for a cable to disconnect at both ends, that way it can be replaced if something happens to it or if you need a custom length. What a terrible idea, it should be hardwired at both ends. I guess Mike thought it was ok on your first post, as you needed ammo he found it more lacking.

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Yep, used everywhere. In computers that sit still and don't get beat to death on stages every night.

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How about in basements? Would it last in your basement where it wouldn't get moved?

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Glad it is at least easily obtainable. I figured they changed something slightly so they weren't compatable. Actually easier to get than the MIDI cables I use. Thanks for schoolin me! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Well, it's easy to teach someone when there wasn't much there to begin with.

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Yep, and easy to fix, BY LINE 6 SERVICE who has to put a new board in it! But not by some service guy in hicktown usa in time to do your gig when your amp poofs.

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Unlike CAEs, VHTs, SLOs, Bogners, etc. that would most likely require a trip back to the factory. I guess tube amps being shipped back to the factory is a good thing versus having to find a Line6 service center that could just swap a board and have it fixed quicker than the connections holding the PCB tube amp were unsoldered allowing you to lift it out.

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Ya know, whatever dude. I know what these things sound like compared to a good tube amp. They're actually cool and very versatile but they still just don't truly compare.

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Not sure if you've ever seen Eric Johnson's old rig - usually one to two 100 watt marshall 1/2 stacks, two fender deluxe reverbs or twins, and a dumble. Plus a pedalboard full of old creaky about to expire effects, some of which had to be held together with a rubber band, AND his amp switchers.

That gave Eric the ability to switch between three amp rigs. It took probably an hour at least to set up. I would never in a million years say my Vetta set up sounds as good as his, but in something that takes less than 5 minutes to set up, has many times the versatility and will cover the tones well enough to be useful for a gigging musician - then yeah, I like my Vetta.

When I gig, I personally only make $100 or so a night, sometimes twice that (maybe a little more - private parties, new years) depending on the venue. The Vetta is PERFECT for what I do. Where you gig, is it worth busting out that CAE rack?

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And wow, all the time you took tearing my post apart and addressing every issue (comendable), you would think you could have something more useful to do than school an un-knowledgeable hack like myself(thanks so much BTW), like maybe programming your Vetta, hehe.

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Vetta's already programmed, thanks. I've used the same live patches for 6 months - all I do is turn it on, set my global volume, bass, treble and reverb and I'm done. No more tweaking to make up for tubes that are running a little hotter than normal or getting worn, no ground loops, no AC hum from my pedalboard, etc.

Pete

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Man, you have way too much time on your hands to do all this cut and paste play by play of my posts. Shame you have to be all amazingly defensive. But, I see why. I'm impressed at least that you find me irritating enough to bother doing so.

Oooh a basement comment? I've probably played more shows than you've attended my modelling friend. And at a better time when people cared. At this point in my life and the way music is today, I just can't happily play lame popular music like you have to in order to get gigs. Especially in "oklahoma", I'm sure you'r playing to some great places. Thankfully, there are people like you to get out there and entertain them drunken oklahomians. If they are like pour drunken crowds here, I'll imagine they wouldn't know the diff between a modelling amp and a tube amp, so, I guess ya have a point.

Ya got that and wow, you're even an internet tube guru to tens of people... Such prestige. I'm so ignorant and blind to your ways.

Umm, thankfully...

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

LOL - Never thought I'd see someone from Cleveland bagging on where someone else lives. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Lotsa firsts here it seems!

Cleveland isn't so bad, nothing a small neutron bomb wouldn't fix.

[ranalli]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

My other guitarist used a Flextone the whole time I was in that band and the cat5 cable NEVER presented any problems. He had plenty of backup cables but never needed em...not once. And this was 3 gigs/week for the year and a half I was in the band.

Anyone who actually gigs knows how to secure their gear and wire regardless of the cable and plugs used.

Plus I've seen regular instrument cable yank out of a jack faster than cat5 anyway.

[YetAnotherOne]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. Though I'd probably recommend a few handfuls of large thermonuclear warheads.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Ehh, lotsa cool old stuff here. Shame to level it.
Just needs some population control...

[lerxstcat]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

This info is not meant to show bias in either direction, but the 2000 census shows Cleveland
with a population of 478,000, and Tulsa 393,000 - roughly comparable city sizes. Seems like the opportunities to play out could be similar too, though Tulsa probably would have more country-western bars. Cleveland has the Rock Hall of Fame though... But humans in Oklahoma, and even Mississippi, have access to the Internet and satellite TV, so have an idea of what the 'hep cats' are doing.

I have no staked out position in the tube vs modeling dispute, but I'll tell you this: I prefer I Can't Believe It's Not Butter to actual butter! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Man, I think watching the Special Olypmics might be cooler than this thread right now! [img]/images/graemlins/idea2.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/fart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Deneb]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Okay, this is where I chime in.

Are there inherent issues with Line 6 on some of there models? Yes, I've heard this, and seen it.

Are there plenty of good artists using Line 6 amps out there now? Yes, I've seen and heard this as well.

Do I own a line 6? Yes, I've seen it and heard it.
Do I own a Mesa? Yes, have I owned other amps? Yes, yes, and yes.

Does the Modeled sound of the Line 6 sound like my Mesa? Hell no. Side by side, I do not think they do.

Tone is subjective, some people like one or the other. I've heard good solid state amps, AND good tube amps.

I happen to think sending back a high end amp to the manufactuer is silly if it's out of warranty, have a qualified electrician fix it. Then again, maybe I'm spoiled. The guy who I take electronic repairs to, is the head of electroinics at Penn States main campus, worked and designed for Mesa Boogie, Kustom and other amp manufacters, and is a warranty tech for damn near every company under the sun.

Granted the line 6 amps I've seen have been the HD187497147 whatever, hte pods, and a few vettas. As a matter of fact KMFDMs one guitarist uses a Line6 Vetta II. The other uses a Mesa. They both sound good to me. I've owned the 1st gen spider, it sucked. I have a spider 2, it sounds good. Problem is, when I get it to half volume, it sounds like assholes. Kind of upset, because had I known that, I wouldn't have bought the 75 watter, I would have gotten the 30.

I've not had to adjust crap on my amp forever, it's always sounded good to me. I don't have to adjust for tubes being assholes or anything, because I've had the same tubes in it for 2 years. They aren't bad (fix something when it's broken, not when it's not) they test out fine on a tester, they sound fine. I know i'm on borrowed time, so I carry a full replacement set just in case, but hey, they ain't going in unless they have to.

Does it need to be good tube tone? No. Can you get good tube tone, from a solid state, computer software amp? Hell no. Can you get good tone from either amp? Yes.


Personally I get tired of the tube solid state arguement. If it sounds good, play it.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

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But humans in Oklahoma, and even Mississippi, have access to the Internet and satellite TV, so have an idea of what the 'hep cats' are doing.

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I'm thinking we're all on the internet talking shite! Hehehe...

[Twisteramps]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

One of the points I was trying to make was that I've used some high end tube gear AND the modelling stuff in a variety of situations, not just a basement. I think that gives a better comparison since I've actually used the gear in question instead of have opinions based on ignorance.

I'm sure if Cleve and I whipped out our resume's his would be 'bigger', and that's fine. But as far as current real world use with the gear in question, he doesn't know it that well to pretend to have such an informed opinion.

If one of the guys here who have owned Vettas and high end amps chimed in, I'd take their opinions more seriously than CM's.

Oh, and I know very well I'm a 'small fish' in a small pond - I play in a cover band for fun and to make a few bucks for new gear to play with. My musical 'highlights' are way past me - I doubt I'll play for a 2000+crowd again, have another small/limited endorsement with Hamer guitars, or get another shot at being signed.

There's nothing wrong with playing in a basement - I wish I had one, damned water tables here in oklahoma - but in the context of this discussion it's a valid thing to point out.

Pete

[Deneb]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

Please do not think I was trying to undermind anyone.
I've used both types of gear (well not the HIGH end modelling stuff, just the standard stuff, only heard the high end in person) but as far as high end tube, yes I've heard AND owned.

I'm not sure if you meant any of it towards me (I doubt you did) and I'm not trying to pick fights with EITHER of you, or prove either of you wrong.

Just my observation in summary is that, there are pluses and minuses to both types of gear, my Mesa does what a Mesa does, very well. Your line 6 however, as you said, may not do everything 100% BUT the versatility is there. Tone is subjective. Reliability is not however, but to prove one more reliable than the other would be, gather ALL different tube amp manufactuers, find out who has done warranty work VS the number of pieces sold. Then look at modelling amps, and see the number of pieces sold.

Honestly, I can see my line 6 being a turd if I drop it...same with my Mesa however. In reality though, maybe revenue went up on warranty work, from Line 6, because of the sheer volume of them put out.

Something to consider.

[jacktheshredder]

Re: The Downfall of Line 6?

You love it or you hate it ... in the end – who cares?

Fortunately, I am both wise and sincere enough to not judge good sound based on the equipment that created the sound. If it sounds good to you does it really matter how it was created? Is the discovery that it was made by something you don’t agree with going change your mind about how good it sounded in the first place? If so you’re an idiot!

I believe the modeling amps get their best use by guitarist in cover bands who need to recreate dozens of sounds – accurately not perfectly! I am confident that most if not all of these guitarist would use a different rig if their set list was all original.

Now boys how about a big hug and a kiss? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]