The Downfall of Line 6?

[lerxstcat]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

I, too, have worn earplugs at rehearsals, gigs and concerts since I was 18 years old. Since that was in 1976, I caught a lot of shit from my buds for that! My hearing, though, is better than most of theirs today!

[hippietim]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

What? Did somebody say something?

[Lordofgain]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
I, too, have worn earplugs at rehearsals, gigs and concerts since I was 18 years old. Since that was in 1976, I caught a lot of shit from my buds for that! My hearing, though, is better than most of theirs today!

[/ QUOTE ]

OK Lerx, you are one of the few. But tell me how in the hell could you have seen the power trio of the ages so many times with earplugs? I just can't do it! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Well, much as I love Rush, if I couldn't hear them it would suck! I actually carried plugs even when I was just hanging with my friends because in the car they'd crank the stereos enough to hurt my ears too. Sonic II by Norton were my best friends and still are!
Live and at rehearsal I'd take the plugs out long enough to make sure I liked the tone, then in they went!

Hey, I like shooting, and wear hearing protection for that too (except when plinking .22s, they're not that loud).

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Lerx, I know what the cable was. I mentioned it was a modular style cable as well. I hadn't got out my DVM and checked pinout and I just figured they wouldn't use the same wiring pin-out as a commonly available cable for money making reasons. I still have reservations about their modular jacks though. I've seen enough on other equipment get damaged from everyday abuse. Of course, not ones that were mounted in military vehicles and whatnot, hehe... I've damaged ethernet cables here by catching them with a foot and tripping on them (that wouldn't happen onstage of course) and still feel a quality MIDI cable holds up better. But major Hats off to line 6 for using an reasonably price common industry standard cable.

I wonder if they mention that what it is in their manual? If not, many would likely be afraid to try a non-oem cable for fear of hurting something...

As for running the POD through a tube amp, that would be a better concept than not I suppose, although two of my friends run POD Pros through their Strategy 500s and I don't care much for it. But that may quite well be their dialing and not the units fault.

What I don't like about the Line six stuff is how they sample the waveform and use it as the structure of the sound to give you everything from attack, sustain and die off of the note which sund a bit artificial to me. I'll figure it's changed in the newer modellers. I'm sure Pete will expand on just what is happening there, I'd like to hear more. Although my friend who works as a design engineer for Bose and has had offers from Digitech for a design position explained it to me fairly well, I probably didn't understand it of course as my limited experience hinders me sometimes.

Surpised you guys haven't even noticed how many times I have actually recommended Line 6 stuff to people for the needs they had. So, it's not like I'm totally against the stuff, it's just not for me. I know what tone I want, and that is not it at all. Just yet at least... I'm SURE they will get better.

Thanks to those who had nice words to say about me BTW. You rule.

Stay Heavy...

[Lordofgain]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

I am an avid shooter as well, hell we didn't even use ear plugs for that back in day lol. Thats what happens when your raised in rural Texas I suppose. Thank God Rush doesn't try to make your ears bleed when they play! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Lordofgain]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
Lerx, I know what the cable was. I mentioned it was a modular style cable as well. I hadn't got out my DVM and checked pinout and I just figured they wouldn't use the same wiring pin-out as a commonly available cable for money making reasons. I still have reservations about their modular jacks though. I've seen enough on other equipment get damaged from everyday abuse. Of course, not ones that were mounted in military vehicles and whatnot, hehe... I've damaged ethernet cables here by catching them with a foot and tripping on them (that wouldn't happen onstage of course) and still feel a quality MIDI cable holds up better. But major Hats off to line 6 for using an reasonably price common industry standard cable.

I wonder if they mention that what it is in their manual? If not, many would likely be afraid to try a non-oem cable for fear of hurting something...

As for running the POD through a tube amp, that would be a better concept than not I suppose, although two of my friends run POD Pros through their Strategy 500s and I don't care much for it. But that may quite well be their dialing and not the units fault.

What I don't like about the Line six stuff is how they sample the waveform and use it as the structure of the sound to give you everything from attack, sustain and die off of the note which sund a bit artificial to me. I'll figure it's changed in the newer modellers. I'm sure Pete will expand on just what is happening there, I'd like to hear more. Although my friend who works as a design engineer for Bose and has had offers from Digitech for a design position explained it to me fairly well, I probably didn't understand it of course as my limited experience hinders me sometimes.

Surpised you guys haven't even noticed how many times I have actually recommended Line 6 stuff to people for the needs they had. So, it's not like I'm totally against the stuff, it's just not for me. I know what tone I want, and that is not it at all. Just yet at least... I'm SURE they will get better.

Thanks to those who had nice words to say about me BTW. You rule.

Stay Heavy...

[/ QUOTE ]

Cleve,
I think they do mention the Cat-5 thing tongue in cheek of course for all of us who have read the manual. They present it to you in that "surfer dude So. Cal speak".

My only point is what we all know, one mans trash is another mans treasure. I think Edgar Poe once talked about poetry and music being the most indefinate sensations on the planet if you catch his drift. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[horns666]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Now I found this god forsaken thread...wow...I just had to skim 123 thread..I never post about amps...I don't care about amps other than playing them...I just talk about what everyone wants to know...my penis.

What the hell is goin' on...

why don't we just argue over something much more concrete other than what amps people like to use..

how about how much Jackson sucks for giving a endorsement deal to a goofy lookin hack that most of us here look down upon (Wes Borland)...instead of giving Jackson endorsements to those who will do Jackson justice and make others want to play 'em...JACKSON SOLD OUT !!!

You got guys here like John , Pete , Shawn and myself and etc. ..that could smoke that fool on his best friggin' day...and all we get is the DICK!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Can I ask...is it OK for me to like my Uber...and a moddeler..

reason I say this I bought a $200 Line 6 30 watt spider for the boy...and that has been daddy's new toy since he got it for Christmas...damn thing is a blast to play..I never nailed Eruption like this in my life...it's sounds like the freakin' record..I wish I can throw down a recording of me doing a "corruption"...my take on eruption and post it for sh!ts and giggles..it's uncanny. I think the JMP-1 gives me more of that "tone"...but the Line 6 has all the VH one bells and whistles....well it just makes it really fun to play.

I'm thinking Vetta myself...but not to replace the Uber...it would replace my beloved Marshall 9200 / JMP-1 / JFX-1 set up that i bought new back in 96'...but that will take lots of investigation before I commit to such things..

I know why John is so insisting on Tubes...his tone is very earthy and girthy...unlike anything you would ever get from a modeling amp ..a modeller could never get you that...especially at those volume levels..levels that make your balls hurt.

But I am very impressed with this little Line 6 Spider bastage...more than I ever was with any POD I ever heard..the POD stuff never sounded this cool to me..PODs were never even an option...but the Vetta I will investigate much further....all because of this damn Line 6 Spider..jeebus. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[hippietim]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
Although my friend who works as a design engineer for Bose...

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you ask him where they hide the bass at Bose? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

Actually, THAT is a known debate out there I will tell you. Umm, along with some other major things. He designs, but designs with a team and can only do what is asked for, and what they will will approve. He's worked on some interesting stuff that you really wouldn't expect from Bose.

He isn't too happy happy joy joy about the place. He had a offers/interviews with VHT, Digitech/DOD, Electro Harmonics people, and some other cool places, but no one is paying enough really. Bose won out in that area, but cost of living where he is at, is pretty high as well. I believe he'd have been happy at VHT, shame they were sorta not paying enough to manage COL in the area, so he had to decline. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] How cool would THAT be???

[Lordofgain]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, THAT is a known debate out there I will tell you. Umm, along with some other major things. He designs, but designs with a team and can only do what is asked for, and what they will will approve. He's worked on some interesting stuff that you really wouldn't expect from Bose.

He isn't too happy happy joy joy about the place. He had a offers/interviews with VHT, Digitech/DOD, Electro Harmonics people, and some other cool places, but no one is paying enough really. Bose won out in that area, but cost of living where he is at, is pretty high as well. I believe he'd have been happy at VHT, shame they were sorta not paying enough to manage COL in the area, so he had to decline. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] How cool would THAT be???

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be more than happy to work for VHT if for nothing else than to add to my gear whore pile!

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

He wanted to very badly. Especially after meeting Steve etc. THe cost of living there is about the same as where he's at, and Bose offered just under twice as much as VHT.

Man... Pay bills or be happy... Decisions decisions...

[Tetsuo]

Re: whazza amps? Clev? Pete?...

Sheet John made me go with the Engl over the Vetta which I was very happy with on the aruement a perfect tone vs a few good tones. No regrets but I still like Line 6 I am somewhere between the Tube purists and the modeler. Actually at Bedroom basement levels I like Modelers. The Vetta was a huge upgrade but I was foiled playing live with the line 6 stuff a few years ago. Anyway... Check out my new amp thread tomorrow I have other questions. Y'all need a hug 9not me though cuz I'm not a fag like all of you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[Ace]

Re: No More Pissing Matches...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Goddamnit!! I will go to the grave swinging my VHT by it's fuckin' power cord before I give in to this modeling bullshit!!

[/ QUOTE ]You know, no one's asking you to "give in" to anything.All anyone's saying here is that they have their uses, and that it serves THEIR purpose. A swiss army knife IS better than an axe when you need to strip cables for soldering, or cut your fingernails.No one has said that they sound 100% as good as the amps they model. What has been said is that they mimic them with enough accuracy to convey the essence of that amp's characteristics, along with those of a bunch of others,enough to grant great versatility to one compact rig. Versatility sacrifices specialization, but really has its own appeal. Pete appreciates tubes as much as anybody here, and seemed skeptical of modelers live at first - he first spoke of them as for quiet computer recording, but kept his mind open and kept checking them out as they improved. He hasn't abandoned tube amps, he builds them now. He has the lab tech experience of building tube amps at home, and also has the field experience of playing club gigs pretty often. He came to the modelers in the cause of reliability and reasonable setup time, from oberving his posts over the last couple of years. I also recall Sully posting about the ampfest where Pete's Vetta held its own live next to all the boutique tube amps. To me that indicates that putting substantial time into getting the best out of it makes much difference. Pete apparently reached a point where he felt the models sounded good enough to be of real use, and aproached the Vetta with the goal of getting the best out of it he could. John, I have mucho respect for you and your background as well, but I feel you've always approached modelers "holding your nose". If you've already decided something sucks,you're going to seek evidence to substantiate your claims. Your experiments have been conducted mostly in music stores for the modelers, I reckon. By contrast, your work with tube gear has been in your "laboratory" where you have spent countless hours, and have admitted you're still not satisfied, though more satisfied than before. I wonder, if you were playing out 2 or 3 times per month,doing covers of various rock formats, whether you might change your mind, if for no other reason that you wouldn't want drunks stumbling into your C.A.E./VHT rack spilling beer into the guts? If you're playing infrequent gigs, or doing one sound for 1 hour each night, you can afford to go with "your" sound only. If you're playing 2-3 nights every weekend and have to cover the gamut of sounds, you need to have a versatile rig if you want to do a good job. If you're content to play a Tom Petty song with a Cannibal Corpsesound, fine, but don't expect to get asked back. If the prospect of playing a Tom Petty tune horrifies you, then stick with your 5150 and God love you! One more tool analogy; you can't change spark plugs with a pipe wrench! Each job requires different tools.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] NOW who can't tell when someone is joking buddy!!

[horns666]

Re: whazza amps? Clev? Pete?...

Hey if your amp makes you fukkin' shred to the best of your ability without hinderance...you got yourself a good amp ..it may NOT be someone elses' idea of good amp...but it not their amp..

Glen Drover...perfect example...that dude is killer..has it down ..."his" playing , "his" tone , "his" feel...the works and with all the awesome tube amps out there...he goes with a hundred dollar 8200 Valvestate...

He plugged into John's amp ...twiddled around a bit and made it sound like Glen Drover playing thru his 8200 Valvestate...go figure..

I play John's amp...twiddle around and I make it close to where it sounds like me at home with my Uber..but when I first plug into John's setting...it's just not right for me...it's perfect for him...

Just like if any one of us used each others amp...chances are you're not going to plug right in and be right at home with their settings..no you're gonna tweak it until it "feels" right..

We are all decent dudes for the most part with very strong convictions thru our personal experiences and whatnot..

John and Pete or me for that matter may not agree at all times with gear or whatever BUT nobody can say we don't know what's up...we are sick , twisted individuals that are in a constant quest for awesome tone and found what works best .. all these years of blowing wads of money on this stuff...you can't say we are not commited..some people think we should be commited..including our wives..

we are never never never truly satisfied...we always think we can do better and sometimes we do..and even when we do better ...it's never good enough..

at least we have some common ground...guitar , shredding and making music with the best gear we can get our slimy hands on.....even if we have to go without food or drink for a year.

It's weird when I hear John playing his crap...I think how in the fukk can you get better than that , he's crazy...when I play at home I think the same thing...but that little thing in our brains tells us things like...man do you hear that noise...I can't get rid of that noise...or what with this flubbing crap ..I can't get rid of this flub..or I can't get rid of this midrange honk , I need a better EQ...or I wonder if I should change all the tubes...again....or the speakers ...again....or my pups again..

Yep...we are nuts and this is the place where nuts come to mingle..and fight! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Hey I heard Pete ..he's a great player...I seen his video clips ...even with my slow ass dial up...and he knows a lot more crap about amps than I do...so does John...and when they talk ...it sounds like Charlie Brown's frikkin' Teacher...I don't understand a damn thing they're talking about..nor do I want to...until something breaks..

I just wanna shred..smoke weed and play with my PP.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

and screw Jackson for selling out to that dweeb Borland and leaving dudes like Laiho , Loomis , Broderick , Mustaine in the cold...I'm still pissed and confused about that one..

Hey Jackson ....you want to boost your image and sales...you get guys like that on your roster and you'll see what I mean.

Wes Borland???...Holy Tap Dancin' Christ!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]