Amp observation and question

[jgcable]

Most of you know, I have a JCM800 and a Carvin MTS
Both are 100w high gain all tube heads.
Most of you also know that playing through a high gain all tube amp requires a more precise playing style when soloing than playing through a modeling amp or a preamp/guitar processor.
Obviously, playing through a more demanding amp will make you a better player but the question is whether it is as much fun as shredding away on a processor or modeling amp.
Here is the question:
Do you prefer to PRACTICE using an amp that is less forgiving (tube amp) or more forgiving (modeling or preamp/guitar processor??
I like gigging and practicing with a band using a tube amp and stomp boxes (when I can turn it up loud) but I prefer to home practice with a modeling amp or a preamp/effects processor. I can shred on either but I have to admit I play much better using a modeler or processor.

[markD]

Re: Amp observation and question

i prefer to practice clean through a fender amp so i can make sure that i am articulating every note, bend, and run. that helps me a lot. after i have warmed up playing clean i move over to my rivera, hit the gain and run through the same stuff again to make sure that i am still playing "cleanly" even with the gain.

i also practice everything dry with no effects, whether it's clean or dirty.
i only use modellers when recording because i am lazy.

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Amp observation and question

I prefer to use a tube amp or nothing at all. I used to believe if you can play clean and precise w/o an amp it will sound better when you do use one. That still is true but I found out that if you go too long you forget how to play with distortion or overdriven sounds and it takes a good few minutes to get the touch responsivness back where it should be.

I don't follow any practice thingy per se but if I'm figuring out a song I don't use an amp. I also run scales with a metronome I won't use an amp 1/2 the time, once I'm warmed up and speed up the metronome I plug in and just improvise.

[jgcable]

Re: Amp observation and question

I am not completely sold on the idea that playing clean or dry makes you a better player. I use delay and reverb alot and I actually play to the delay and the reverb. Its part of my sound and style. Most of the players I emulate also use delay, reverb and other effects. I set up my sound to best fit into the style of music I am playing. Obviously, I wouldn't use delay when playing SRV licks but I most certainly would when I am ripping off Lynch or Demartini. I know a few guys who play dry and sound great but when they add effects or processors they sound garbled and sloppy. You could say they are better players but the bottom line is that when we are doing a Dokken song they are going to be forced to use delay to get that Lynch tone. If they aren't used to using effects they usually sound like crap. I think that this is the reason that modeling amps and guitar processors have made me a better player. Bizarre?? Sure. [img]/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[noodlesatf]

Re: Amp observation and question

I used to practice without an amp, until I was told by several people that it was a bad idea. You tend to hit the strings harder so you can hear yourself, and when you go back to an amp, you're digging in way too hard.

I like to practice on a POS Park practice amp. I can get relatively clean and dirty sounds out of it, and it forces me to nail things dead on to avoid sounding like crap. Whenever I go back to my full rig, I sound like a million bucks.

[markD]

Re: Amp observation and question

no, you're right to a point. you do need to play to your effects. that's what i do in band practice. when i am practicing songs. but i don't do covers, so my approach to working with effects is different. i'm not working to nail a particiular tone. my use of effects is to expand the guitar during leads in a one guitar band. you know, make things have more sonic space.

[Tetsuo]

Re: Amp observation and question

Very good observation John... My Style is pretty dry and I have noticed myself when I play with effects that I don't play as well because I don't work with the effects enough... The swell of the delay sounds sloppy etc...

[Twisteramps]

Re: Amp observation and question

I think it depends on the amps in question... some tube amps are really stiff and harder to play, some modelling amps are the same.

Maybe I'm just weird - my VHT was the easiest tube amp I've ever owned to play, but many people have problems with them being so tight. I could do stuff on that VHT that I can't do with modelling amps playing-wise. That JCM800 2210 you have now is pretty forgiving too - I could wail on that thing as easily as I can my Vetta.

Pete

[jgcable]

Re: Amp observation and question

[ QUOTE ]
Very good observation John... My Style is pretty dry and I have noticed myself when I play with effects that I don't play as well because I don't work with the effects enough... The swell of the delay sounds sloppy etc...

[/ QUOTE ]
That is the reason it is so important to have the MS adjusted perfectly for your playing style and metering.
The only way you will know which delay settings will best compliment your style is to use delay when you are practicing at home. George Lynch is actually anal regarding his delay settings. He uses 2 of them set at precise MS. Take Satriani for instance. When he demo'd the new JSX amp he claimed he was plugging the guitar straight in but if you read the fine print and saw the video you could see he was using a processor (G Major?) in the loop with a fairly heavy delay and reverb. Vai does the same thing with the Legacy demo. When you are playing live and loud the natural acoustics from the room can give you enough natural "reverb and delay" to play dry but I ask you... is that really dry?
Why do all these pro players use effects (especially delay and reverb)in their instructional videos? Because it makes them sound better and more importantly, closer to the way they sound on their recorded material. That brings up another interesting point.. Are effects, processors and modelers the easy way out? We used to call anything that made you sound better than you actually were a "crutch".
1st. we snubbed wah pedals saying "they are a crutch"
2nd. we snubbed locking trems saying "they are a crutch"
3rd. we snubbed digital delay because it was so precise and made a solo sound so much better than the echoplex.
and so on and so on.
We were dead wrong and eventually gave in to all of the above.

[jgcable]

Re: Amp observation and question

[ QUOTE ]
I think it depends on the amps in question... some tube amps are really stiff and harder to play, some modelling amps are the same.

Maybe I'm just weird - my VHT was the easiest tube amp I've ever owned to play, but many people have problems with them being so tight. I could do stuff on that VHT that I can't do with modelling amps playing-wise. That JCM800 2210 you have now is pretty forgiving too - I could wail on that thing as easily as I can my Vetta.

Pete

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree about the JCM800 Pete. Sambencuda and myself were shredding for hours on the JCM but I did have the reverb dialed in and a digital delay in the loop. Maybe I'm a delay/reverb junkie?? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: Amp observation and question

great points John. You have to know how to "play" effects just as you have to play the instrument or they'll end up playing you. It doesn't matter how clean your technique is if you sound like ass when you use effects your inexperience will show. They are tools but not a necessity, as with any tool, you have to learn how to use them effectively.

On a side note I never really use delay on a distorted guitar sound. I do like a little reverb but I like it dry as possible. I think it goes back to the 80's when everyone had those Yamaha delays (SPX something or another 90 ??) and everyone and their brother had way too much delay in their live sound, even metal bands were starting to sound top 40 and overly processed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Fragle]

Re: Amp observation and question

"I prefer to use a tube amp or nothing at all. I used to believe if you can play clean and precise w/o an amp it will sound better when you do use one. That still is true but I found out that if you go too long you forget how to play with distortion or overdriven sounds and it takes a good few minutes to get the touch responsiveness back where it should be. "

+1...thats exactly how i feel

i do 95% of my practicing without an amp. imho, if you can hear everything you play clearly without an amplifier amplifying those half-hit notes, you will sound better with an amp. however, it is true that playing through a tube amp at high volumes feels different. usually i have to play a couple of minutes to get used to that special feel, but then the wailing can begin [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

regarding fx: well......i'm pretty much a purist. i dont use any fx at all. i think they kill my tone. well, except those HIGH end units like lexicon or whatever.....but i cant afford them....so i play dry. end of discussion [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
i'm using an "effects" rack with my amp, but it is only 2HE and consists of nothing more than a racktuner and a wireless system [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
i like reverb for clean sounds, though.

greets
fragle

[Venomboy]

Re: Amp observation and question

My VHT was super tight but I didn't have a problem playing it. SS for me is good for low volumes (I have a Peavey Envoy 110) but when they're loud they just don't do it for me. I've tweaked a Vetta a lot at Guitar Center and they do have a different feel than a tube amp. My Framus is tight but not VHT tight and I don't have a problem with it. So my vote is for tube amps.

[Tetsuo]

Re: Amp observation and question

See I ruined myself by not practicing with an amp... My feel was always way off... I really dug way way too deep into the strings without an amp I would always come into practice just screaming (I would leave my amp at practice) and it wasn't good for me personally

[thetroy]

Re: Amp observation and question

Right now all I own is a small tube amp so that's what I practice with! I ordered a Korg PX4 recently to try some effects and recording, and also to play with headphones. We'll see if it ends up being my main practice toy or not.

I think I posted once before though that I played a Line6 amp and sounded pretty good even when I was screwing things up, my Soldano definitely does not have that effect.