please, share your experience, need advice

[Fragle]

hi all, it's me again [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

i need some advice from you guys, especially those who have a lot of experience with amps and playing in general

let me start by saying that i just joined a quite professional german thrash/death metal band....so i'm definitely NOT looking for and bedroom/band rehearsal only type of amplifier....we're going to play a lot of shows this year, as well as a couple of open air festivals (and we're going on tour through europe on february 25th, but we don't have to take our own amps on tour). so i'm looking for something that is suited for this kind of (ab)use.

well...it's like this. at the moment i own a mesa DC5, which sounds incredible for lead and clean sounds. i'm really digging the mark series lead sound...you know, the really smooth, singing, thick sounds of players like john petrucci, and the dc comes close enough. its clean channel is also very bright and sparkling, almost glassy, which is exactly what i want. so far, so good. now, IMHO, it sounds like shit for rhythm guitar. it seems that the cascading gain stages (which are responsible for that singing vocal like lead sound) turn tight and aggressive rhythms into fuzzy muddy crap. i can't dial in a satisfying rhythm sound, it's just impossible. now, i'm using a marshall jmp1 / EL34 100/100 rack setup for band rehearsals, and it sounds like shit for leads and clean, but REALLY NICE for rhythms. recently i had the chance to try out an old jcm800 head, and it's rhythm sound was almost perfect...really nice. my conclusion is that i'm a mesa guy when it comes to clean and lead, but a marshall guy when it comes to rhythm :/

and now the last thing, which is the reason for my post. last weekend i saw destrucion live, and the guitar player was using an engl savage 120 through a 1960B cab. his sound was CRUSHING. alright, he didn't play any clean stuff, but the rhythm and lead sounds were awesome. maybe a little gainy, but you can always turn the gain down ^^

now....well....this whole situation got me thinking. maybe i should sell my mesa (as well as my old laney and some other stuff which i wanted to sell anyways) and get an engl? i was particulary thinking of the powerball (1450 euro) or the savage SE (1650 euro..i know, this is pretty cheap for such an amp!). feature-wise, i think i could also get away with the fireball, but it's only 60w, and frankly i dont think that would be sufficient, especially for those open air gigs. as i said above, i'm playing thrash/death metal, so i don't need a lot of sounds...i don't even NEED a clean channel, but it's always nice to have one ^^ i only need a rhythm sound (btw, i'm not using a whole lot of gain, nor am i using a lot of bass, so i think the powerball would be overkill, given the fact that it's a bass and gain monster) and a lead sound (i'm the rhythm guitar player, though). the savage would definitely be overkill, thats for sure. i haven't played one yet, but reading the harmony central reviews as well as the reviews on this site i think the gain on crunch channel II (channel 3) would be sufficient for my rhythm needs, leaving the 4th channel for leads. but as i said above, i think when it comes to features i'm sure i could get away with an old jcm800 marshall and a tubescreamer / boss sd1 ^^


you know....i just don't know whats the better solution, especially in the long run. the choices are:
1)keep the mesa, take the jmp1/el34 rack on the road
2)keep the mesa, sell the laney and some other stuff, and get an used jcm800 2203 (around 500-700 euro depending on condition)
3)sell the mesa, sell the laney, get either a powerball or a savage se

sounds i like:
clean: John petrucci on images and words...the mesa nails that one
rhythm: iced earth - 1776, ozzy - no more tears, van halen II on steroids, metallica - ride the lightning, destruction live ^^ (similar to their metal discharge album)....basically marshall all the way, except destruction and iced earth
lead: john petrucci on six degrees of inner turbulence disc 2...think goodnight kiss....awesome sound, awesome solo...i hate his Road King lead sound by the way....overcompressed crap [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

sorry for writing a whole book.... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

lots of thanks in advance

[markD]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

well, congrats on the gig first of all...personally i think if you like your Mesa, keep it for now and take the JMP-1 rig on the road if you can. do the first tour and see what you need after. if the rig you have access to doesn't give you what you need, shop when you get back. no sense in selling something you like to get something "better"...although i feel your pain...i'd LOVE to have an ENGL savage SE or even an ENGL straight!!

[jgcable]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

On a budget I would look at the Carvin MTS3200
With a little more money I would look at the Peavey 5150 or a Triple X
With even more money I would look at a Dual or Triple Rectifier.
With considerably more money I would look at the SLO100 and the Savage 120.

[Baum83]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

Did you get the gig in Final Breath? Now that would rule, but congrats either way. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
If money is the issue, I'd rather use the JMP1 and upgrade after the tour, at a point of time where you have money and sufficient time to test stuff. The JMP1 works, you probably know by now how to get decent sounds out of it, and you can upgrade the preamp to an Engl or Mesa later on and keep the poweramp - a Triaxis or E570 through a Marshall 20:20 still sounds quite nice after all.

[Fragle]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

first of all, yes it is indeed final breath [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

well...i'm not really on a budget. if i sold the mesa, the laney, and the other stuff mentioned i'd have around 1300-1400 euro....enough to get a powerball without spending extra cash ^^ i could afford the savage without problems, though...200 euro more or less aren't that important if i'm already spending that much money [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

ah, and by the way, the jmp rack isn't mine. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] i'm just using it.

greets
fragle

[Shawn Lutz]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

why not just use both amps that you currently have? Ude the DC-5 for clean and lead and the Marshall rig for rhythms? An A/B box is all you need

[Baum83]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

Well, that's most excellent news! [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
I'll definitely see you guys at the end of May in Duisburg then, Rage against Racism-festival. If time allows, we can meet up and destroy some beer there [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
My personal preference would be the Powerball... has that nice muting feature, and it eats small children for breakfast when you crank it. Sounds nice with less gain as well, though (same goes for the Savage). I can't say for sure if you can get Petrucci-like cleans out of it (didn't use the clean extensively), but somehow I doubt it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
What about a Framus Cobra? Those are pretty mean sounding as well, but I have no idea about the clean channel. About the same price as an Engl, too.

[Tetsuo]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

FWIW I get an awesome Rhythm tone ala Scenes From a Memory on my Third channel with my Powerball. It is best with my Soloist and JB for a Petrucci Tone and I ahve owned Recto's and Mark IV's in the past. Now Petrucci cleans I nail with EMG's running 18 volt in my powerball

Fragle the fact that you are in Germany I would expect that the Engl is cheaper than Mesa (About the same here in the US Engl a little more) I would suggest the Powerball over all of it. I worked last week and I finally got the only thing missing from the Powerball down last week and that is the lead tone (the Contour switch finally payed off)

I have owned a good # of amps and the Powerball is ahrd to top IMO Although I still wan an Uber

As far as the Cobra I was stoked on these but when I finally got to play one @ NAMM and it was alright a good amp but my nod goes to the Powerball or Uber all day long...

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

any one of the high gain boutique monsters will do. but keep the boogie. you'll be glad you did when you get an A/B box to switch to the boogie for leads. or leads in the studio. or you could just get the pod xt live and run it through the FX return on the boogie. then you'll have all kinds of sounds to work with. or you could get the jcm800. its up to you. they all can be made to sound great IMO.

[Fragle]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

yeah, engls are waaay cheaper than mesas over here. the DC is pretty cheap for a mesa, i paid only 650euro....although they normally go for like 750euro. a new recto is around 2500euro, although it's possible to get one off ebay for like 1250 euro if you search long enough. but then again, while the recs are awesome amps (i still think they are one of the best sounding amplifiers around), i think it wouldn't cut it for this style of music. they can pull off some awesome death metal tones, but i feel that articulation and clarity is what i need at the moment. some of our stuff is pretty technical, and i want all the notes to stand out clearly.

btw, the cobra is around 1650 euro new....basically as expensive as the savage SE.

ah yeah, i just want to mention that i have yet to hear a clip of an uber that sells me on that amp. i haven't played one yet (i dont even know a single store that carries them!), and maybe they are much better in person, but almost every clip i've heared until now sounded fuzzy as hell.....i think the best uber sound i've heared was bill's sound on the bed of nails demo mp3s [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

i think i'd like to have an amp that cuts through like a marshall, but delivers the low end of those vintage mesas (not rectifier silly amouts of loose low end, but rather tight mark series low end that isn't overpowering), while remaining clear and articulate at high volumes....much like destruction's live sound [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[noodlesatf]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

I'm surprised only one person mentioned the Peavey XXX. Everything you complained about were all of my same complaints, until I tried a XXX. The clean channel has loads of headroom, without breaking up. The crunch channel is great for musical sounding leads with tons of singing sustain. The ultra channel is just plain brutal, with loads of gain, a massive low end, and no fuzzing out. Too many people don't take them seriously because they cost less than a grand (US dollars), but believe me, these things make a Dual or Tri Rec sound like a kid's toy. It really is an amp that does it all well, and the only way I could see myself doing better with just one amp is by jumping up to the $2800+ range.

[Tetsuo]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

Fragle the Savage sounds the way to go except all EL34 more marshally amps you are going to lose clean headroom...

Noodles? The triple XXX. Good amp but it is sterile for my tastes... If Fragle is looking for a more Marshally feel I suggest the JSX. One thing to consider though is that Peavey is more than likely more expensive in Germany than in the US

[Tetsuo]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

BTW I was never sold on the UBER until I ehard it in person... Bogner has terrible clips though anyway. The clean is good and the lead tones are fantastic... Overall though the Powerball is a better amp

[necrotechno]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

VHT Pittbull — either the Hundred (EL34) or Ultralead (KT88), depending on what kind of tubes you like. The Soldano Decatone is an awesome 6L6 beast.

[Baum83]

Re: please, share your experience, need advice

The Pittbull is a monster amp, but it clocks in at 3500€ over here (that's about 5000$), and you WILL NOT find one used. Getting one from the US isn't that practical either, we all know what shipping monkeys can do to a guitar... now imagine what they'd do to a boutique tube amp. Last but not least, we use 230V instead of the 110V in the US over here in Europe... AFAIC that's just too many risks and inconveniences.
I'd go for either the Savage or the Powerball. They're readily available, medium-priced (even a little more expensive than Peavey) in comparison and just plain rule. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]