JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q's!

[Lordofgain]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

Take your pick:



Trace modded JCM800 50 watt or Engl Savage! Both say yummmm!

[DTP]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

Well I bought a Duel Rec and 2 weeks later took it back and got he 800 and I've never looked back. With pedals I bet you could get just about what ever tone out of the 800 you wanted.

Jason

[STLKINGV]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

I run an Alieses graphic EQ and a DBX 160 Compressor/Limiter through the effects loop and have great tones. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

Adrian

[Big D]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

The guy in Shadows Fall plays a JCM 800. I think they'd fall under the "modern metal" category. Get an 800 and put a good pedal in front of it, you'll be happy.

[Fragle]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

sorry for hijacking the thread, but...

how does the 5150 (I) crunch channel (clean w/ crunch engaged) compare to a stock jcm800? or well...does it compare at all? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
furthermore, how does the crunch channel react to overdrive pedals....i know the jcm800 LOVES beeing boosted by different OD pedals.

seriously, i'm thinking about getting either a 5150 or a jcm800 (ATM i'm selling the laney via ebay), thats why i'm asking...but i'm sure i'll open another thread for this discussion once the laney is sold (=sunday) [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

greetings (and once again, sorry for hijacking [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] )
fragle

[jgcable]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

The 5150 crunch channel (Channel 1 with crunch engaged) has less gain then a dimed out JCM800 2203 or 4. If you want serious gain with no pedal you should look at the 2205 or 2210. To me.. after owning both a 2210 and a few different 5150's I feel the best way to describe both amps distortion )or gain) when not using a pedal is:
5150: metal-death metal
JCM800 2204,5: hard rock
JCM800 2205,10: hard rock-metal

[Fragle]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

wow, you're fast [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

well, i'm after a classic thrash metal sound like exodus or slayer, so not really HIGH gain territory. i wasn't able to dime out a jcm800 (yet), but i'm quite sure the gain would be sufficient for rhythm playing...i don't use a lot of gain.
now, i've played the 5150 combo as well as the 5150 II head, and while the combo sounded pretty nice (just not loud enough for bigger venues imo), i wasn't impressed by the head. very fuzzy highend and quite noisy (i WAS impressed by its clarity, though. when playing stuff like triads or open string stuff with my mesa, everything becomes quite muddy...not so with the 5150. every note stood out clearly...i like that). the clean channel was unusable for me, anyways, so i was thinking about using it as a rhythm channel (jcm800 like) and the lead channel for leads. however, if the jcm800 does clear articulate rhythm playing better than the 5150, i think i'd go for it....the jcm800 is cheaper, too.

btw, how about comparing the 2203 to the 2210? i've been told that the 2210 has a horrible bleedthrough thing going on...the clean channel interacts with the crunch and vice versa. it's also said to be brighter and a bit fuzzier than the 2203 which is supposed to be ballsier and heavier. is this true?

greets
fragle

[jgcable]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

I made a typo I meant 2203,4.
I agree about the 5150 being hissy (noisy). That is one of the main reasons I eventually sold all of mine and never looked back. The other reason was I didn't think it was a very good "lead" guitar amp. Playing solo's through a 5150 didn't put the smile on my face like my 2210 does. I actually liked solo'ing through a Dual Rectifier better than a 5150. The 5150 is only fuzzy at low volumes. When you open one up it sounds killer. Really killer. 5150's are very reactive to the cabinet and speaker selection. IMHO, they sound best through either 5150 cab's with Sheffields or Marshall 1960A's with vintage 30's.
The 2203,04 is quieter and more toneful but it doesn't have nearly the gain of a 5150. A 5150 with the drive on 4 has more gain than a 2203,04 dimed out.
The differences between a 2204 and the 2210 in regards to gain?
The 2210 sounds like a 2204 with a Boss SD-1 in front of it. It sounds like a modded 2204 to me. The 2210 is bright and sizzly and has some of the characteristics of an SLO100. Articulate, organic, toneful and fantastic for playing lead guitar through. Some guys don't like the fact that it has clipping diodes in it which increase its gain but you have to remember those same guys have a diode filled preamp or distortion pedal in front of their 2204 JCM so whats the difference.The 2210 also adds a couple of VERY useful features.
1. An effects loop
2. REALLY nice reverb.
3. A direct line out.
My 2210 starts getting its "ballz" when I turn it up. It cuts through a mix really well and even sounds good at whisper bedroom levels.
To me, there are only 2 basic types of hard rock/metal tones:
Mesa and Marshall.
If you like or need both or a blend of them the 5150 does a pretty nice job with the proper tweaking.

[Deneb]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

I have to agree, and disagree at the same time. You can play NOT death metal tones on a Mesa, I do it all the time. I got a Triple rec three channel, not because Mesa is better or Marshall is better, I went and I played the amps, and I really like how the Mesa sounds, I don't get what all the shit sound Mesa supposedly gets crap, because MY MESA sounds fukking awesome. I wouldn't have bought it if it did not. Is the JCM800 inferior? Hell no, not by any means. I had one, and I wish I still had it, however, in all practical applications, I need the GOOD clean channel (sorry, but I think the JCM800 clean sucks) I need versatility (my Mesa, I can get rolled back tones or over the top tones).

Do many great players use the Marshall? Hell yes, and many people love them. They are sweet ass amps, no doubt.(referring to the 800 series)

Go play BOTH of them or whatever amps you're looking at side by side and compare to what you like, that's the only way.

[Fragle]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

first of all, you CAN play DM on a rectifier. just listen to pat o'brien (cannibal corpse) or rob barrett (malevolent creation)....they use recs, and they sound CRUSHING. you have to stick a mt2 set for EQ only in front of them, though.

regarding amps: ATM i'm looking at the 5150I, jcm 800 2203/2210 (normally i'd not consider the 2210, but seeing jgcable praise it like he does above changes my mind) and the engl blackmore.....the blackmore is a little pricey, though. i can afford both the 5150 and the marshall by selling my laney and some other stuff (which i'm doing right now), but i'd have to pay like 500€ extra to afford the engl.
anyways, back to the 2203/2210 comparison thingy: well...there must be a reason why most famous jcm800 users use the 2203 and not the 2210...think kerry king, jeff hanneman, zakk wylde etc.
the 2203 is said to be warmer sounding, with less gain, more dynamics, and a better response to overdrive boxes. i know i'd permanently use a stompbox in front of it (most likely a SD1...or 2...a la exodus ^^) so the 2210 with the "built in sd1" thing should be nice...but then there is the channel bleedthrough issue i mentioned above. maybe jgcable's 2210 is an extraordinary great one and thats why he recommends it like crazy....i trust his opinion, but it's just that i'm always told that the 2203 is the better amp hands down.

btw, while i'm only playing rhythm guitar in final breath, i LOVE shredding like crazy...the whole neoclassical arpeggio insanity [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

ah, and before i forget it, i'm using a laney cab loaded with HH speakers (75w each) as well as a marshall 1960 fullstack

[jgcable]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

Keep in mind Fragle, I am not into death metal at all. Actually, I dislike it. Here is a sample of what I like in regards to guitar tone:
Malmsteen
Macalpine (although his tone has elluded me so far)
Lynch
Lukather
Eric Johnson
Ace
I am a a huge fan of neo-classical style and tone and I shred everyday on my 2210 to Malmsteen and Lynch. It is the perfect amp if you like that tone. For Metallica??? Mesa baby. I love Mesa Boogie. Singles, Duals, Triples, Tremoverbs, Studio 22's, DC's, Nomad's, Mark Series, I love them all but for ME for neo-classical shredding, nothing beats a Marshall.

[jgcable]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

Fragle, another thing. I have owned a JCM800 2204 and a Plexi along with a few 900's and if I had to choose a Marshall I would choose either a 2203,4 or a 2205,10 regardless of what kind of metal I play. They both can do it. The 2204 does sound "bigger" when you crank it but because almost everybody puts a pedal in front of it I really couldn't tell you if it sounds better or worse than a 2210. I can only base my opinion on what I have owned in the past and the 2210 is the best sounding STOCK Marshall JCM800 I have ever heard (and mine is a 1987 and beat to crap). I hope I helped you out without swaying you either way. There are so many great amps out there it is really hard to make a decision. Ask me what my amp Nirvana is? It is the one amp I have never owned. The SLO100. One day I will have one. 2 other amps on my hit list are a Mesa Mark IIc+ head and a Mesa Single Rectifier. 50watt single recto's KILL.

[Fragle]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

i'm WAY into thrash and death metal (as well as shred and 80s metal), but as i said above, my guitar sound is not death metal AT ALL....been there, done that, you know? i own a mesa (DC5) and imho it's an awesome amp for leads and clean sounds (i like way glassy bright cleans a la John Petrucci as well as JP lead sound...two things the mesa does very well), however, i hate its rhythm sound. way to messy and undefined...kinda muddy. as i said above, i hate the way the mesa muddies up when playing triads, tritones and open string stuff. i'm not into scooped guitar sounds, too. let met give you an example: my current rhythm guitar sound on the mesa (using a jackson king V with an EMG81) looks like this
guitar->tubescreamer drive 1 level 10 tone 5->mesa
amp settings:
gain 3
treble 8
middle 7
bass 4
presence off
no reverb
channel volume 6
graphic EQ: normally off for high volume stuff, at low volumes the 240 and 6600 are set flat, the 80 750 and 2200 are almost at the upper line

this gives me a sound similar to kreator - live creation....which is about the sound i'm after. other great sounds are zakk wylde - no more tears (the song, not the whole album), most exodus albums, or slayer live (think jeff hanneman's sound at the war at the warfield DVD)

i think you get the idea

furthermore, ATM i'm using a marshall JMP1 / EL34 100/100 rack setup for rehearsals, and i like its sound....although i have to admit that i tend to dial in a quite honky sound ^^ i dont have it in front of me, but i think my settings are like (using OD2, the poweramp cranked, the level control on the jmp halfway, the presence on the poweramp almost cranked) gain 11, bass 3, mid 3, treble 1, presence -1 (remember the gain goes to 20 on that unit)

one thing i dislike is the EL34 powersection the marshall is using. my laney can be set for both 6l6 and el34 tubes, and at high volumes i liked the 6l6 way better. the el34 might add more gain to the sound, but they sound thin and kind of "narrow" to me...the frequency range they put out is very limited, whereas the 6l6 sound rather wide to me, covering a huge frequency range...higher highs, lower lows. furthermore, they don't honk like the el34s do when run at 10 (which i always do for rehearsal *g*). thats what got me thinking about the 5150.....it is supposed to be one of the best 6l6 driven amps that give a marshall impression...a not honking marshall...

omg, i just wrote a novel, SORRY

[DTP]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

One thing to keep in mind as well, is tweaking. I think with the DR you could get some really good soloing tones, but you have to tweak that thing. There are so many knobs and switches and that stuff drives me crazy.

Now the 800 has like 6 knobs and two inputs. Pretty damn simple. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I like simple, and getting the tone I want doesn't take me an afternoon of tweaking. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jason

[jgcable]

Re: JCM 800 lovers in here please, I have some Q\'s!

Fragle, I will tell you one thing in response to your post. 5150's sound frikkin fantastic on 10. Especially if you dial the gain down to around 6. Holy moly.