Live rig suggestion

[sambencuda]

Re: Live rig suggestion

I can say first hand that, yes, it's true. John's rig blew my rectifier away. Keep in mind that I went dry with no effects at all last Friday. I thought the combination of my dry rectifier tone mixed with John's GT-6 effects heavy sounds was a one two punch. I tend to let John go nits with effects and I lay beck in that area. I usually only use chorus for the clean stuff and a little delay for leads. Other than that I'm pretty dry as far as tone goes.

Warning John, I will have my G-major setup for our next gig on Saturday. IT'S ON!!!!!! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Live rig suggestion

Nice, I'm bringing the Mark III. lol.... Just kidding.
No really, I'm bringing it! Modeling sucks. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Deneb]

Re: Live rig suggestion

Okay, let me clear this out of the way (because you know it's coming).

My Mesa Boogie triple rectifier sounds awesome. There are some things I'd like to EQ better, but guess what...I'm really fucking impatient. I cannot handle "turn up this, turn down that." I kind of run everything at 12 and then go from there.

Most of the time, the crowd isn't going to know if you're using some new fangled modeler, or some old junky Mesa Boogie tube amp (because modelers suck)....

Okay, that said. I've got a Mesa Boogie, AND for practice I've got a line 6 Spider. I've always liked the "try to sound tube" solid state appeal,from the old valvestates, to the orignal line 6's (Pod/Spider1/Flextone) along with Peavey's Transtube shit. I've never found something I've liked MORE than my tube amp, but I've found MANY good tones that I would EASILLY use if I needed to.

That said, I had an original spider (sucked compared to series 2) and a Flextone 2. I've never got to use a Vetta or an HD 20379231879871239. However, I'm very open to modelers AND tube amps. Hell, I just picked up a Line 6 POD XT Live here in the classifieds (I'll be posting a thread about it soon) which should be here Wednesday. I'm a tube snob, but at the same time, I"m not afraid to experiment. I'm happy you found a live rig that sounds awesome. Question is, why not use the Mark III? I thought you were sold on it? (Mark 3 and 4 are definately amps I want to try).

[Rupe]

Re: Live rig suggestion

Got a clip of the GT-6 rig?

[Inearthed]

Re: Live rig suggestion

I know Marty Friedman is/was a big GT-6 guy. Also I believe Mikael from Opeth is the same way.

[jgcable]

Re: Live rig suggestion

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, let me clear this out of the way (because you know it's coming).

My Mesa Boogie triple rectifier sounds awesome. There are some things I'd like to EQ better, but guess what...I'm really fucking impatient. I cannot handle "turn up this, turn down that." I kind of run everything at 12 and then go from there.

Most of the time, the crowd isn't going to know if you're using some new fangled modeler, or some old junky Mesa Boogie tube amp (because modelers suck)....

Okay, that said. I've got a Mesa Boogie, AND for practice I've got a line 6 Spider. I've always liked the "try to sound tube" solid state appeal,from the old valvestates, to the orignal line 6's (Pod/Spider1/Flextone) along with Peavey's Transtube shit. I've never found something I've liked MORE than my tube amp, but I've found MANY good tones that I would EASILLY use if I needed to.

That said, I had an original spider (sucked compared to series 2) and a Flextone 2. I've never got to use a Vetta or an HD 20379231879871239. However, I'm very open to modelers AND tube amps. Hell, I just picked up a Line 6 POD XT Live here in the classifieds (I'll be posting a thread about it soon) which should be here Wednesday. I'm a tube snob, but at the same time, I"m not afraid to experiment. I'm happy you found a live rig that sounds awesome. Question is, why not use the Mark III? I thought you were sold on it? (Mark 3 and 4 are definately amps I want to try).

[/ QUOTE ]

Deneb, I have had Spyders, Flextone's, Johnsons, Vox, Behringer, etc... and to be 100% honest there is NO WAY you can compare them to a GT-6/8 running through a 100w stereo tube power amp or even a Vetta or Vetta 2 for that matter.
Take that XT Live you are about to get and plug it into a tube power amp and run your rig in true stereo. You will be friggin blown away and your Triple Rectifier may be staying home for gigs. My ex-bandmate was a 100% diehard tube snob Mesa Boogie player. He would only play Duals and Triples through Mesa 4 x 12 oversized cabinets. After several gigs with him and his Mesa and me and my GT-6 and power amp he sold his Triple and bought a Vetta 2. He calls me weekly for the last year or so to tell me what an incredible amp the Vetta 2 is. He gets compliments everywhere he plays and his guitar tone is outstanding. He attributes his great sound to me and my GT-6 which he considers the only sound that could compare to his. You know me, I have alot of amps. Most of them are tube amps. My favorite is my Mark III. It just can't be my ears. Everywhere I play and everytime somebody hears my rig they are blown away. They feel compelled to come up to me and remark how incredible my guitar sound is and how all the songs I play sound just like the record. When you are in a cover band that is the ultimate compliment. If I only needed 1 basic sound I would certainly use my Mark III but I need lots of sounds and effects and a tuner and a wah and a noise gate and a stereo signal etc... My rig gives me all of these plus it is blistering loud and sound great and consistant at ALL volumes and in any room or club. I am not the type of guy to blow smoke up your ass in regards to an amp sound. I am the ultimate amp tone snob. I have also been a student of great guitar sound for close to 30 years now. I know plenty of guys who spend more time picking out a guitar than an amp. I am completely opposite. I think that any guitar that costs over $500.00 with decent pickups is pretty decent. Most of my guitars would be considered average. Amps on the other hand, are a different story. I spend countless hours perfecting my live sound. Song by song, I try to duplicate the actual recorded sound of the guitar I am copying. Ask anybody that has heard my play live and most if not all of them would agree that my live tone is pretty close if not exactly like the original recorded tone. I am the same way with synths. I won't play a song on keyboards live unless the patch is 100% accurate. I sometimes spend 8 hours on 1 patch for 1 song. That stuff is important to me. It always has been. This is precisely why the GT-6/stereo power amp is so useful to me. I joined the GT-6 forum, I read the manual 100 times, I got the CD, I ask the questions and I stuck with my GT-6 until I unlocked its potential.
I agree with you... the crowd can't tell nor do they even care. The thing is... I care. The one common factor that all of my bands cover songs share is good guitar sound.
Try taking your Triple Rectifier and going from Don't Fear The Reaper or A Girl Like You by The Smithereens to Just Got Lucky and Master of Puppets. It ain't gonna happen. Sure the general non-musician public might not know that difference but I would if I were in the crowd. The difference between the tones of those songs is like comparing the Beatles to Accept. The Smithereens and Don't Fear the Reaper have more of a stock Matchless Cheftain or JCM800 2203 type guitar tone. Its raw with just a touch of reverb and minimal gain. Actually, the gain is as little as you could get away with but still maintain a nice rock tone. The BOC song requires you to roll the volume down on your guitar for the verses to clean your guitar up even more. Its like a midrange heavy dirty clean. The Smithereens is straight up crunch. Even the guitar solo is basically the same tone, just louder. Not much gain but very clear and punchy. Metallica is scooped with tons of gain, sizzle and bottom end. Just Got Lucky is more like a Soldano or modded Marshall JCM800. Both require delay for the guitar solos. Just Got Lucky needs delay for most of the fills too. It also requires stereo chorus for a single line in almost every verse. I have had Singles, Duals and Triple Rectifiers and I can say from experience that you can't get all those tones live and on the fly from those amps.
Here is another example for all you Ratt fans.
Round and Round & Lay it Down
These are 2 of the most popular Ratt songs. The crowd loves them. The guitar sound in both of these songs couldn't be further apart. You simply can't use the guitar tone in Round and Round for Lay it Down. Especially the beginning. I have 2 different patches for these 2 songs. When I am playing to the record sometimes I can't tell the difference between my tone and the original guitar tone. There is nothing better than taking that great tone, naming it, storing it in the memory and taking it out to the gig with the assurance that it will sound exactly like it did when you programmed it.
A guitar processor (modeller) is similar to a laptop when you first get it. The more you use it the more useful it becomes. Once you get to know it you really can't live without it.
Well.. thats my story and I am sticking with it. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Chuckracer]

Re: Live rig suggestion

"You simply can't use the guitar tone in Round and Round for Lay it Down."

Those are different guitar sounds?

Yup. It's official. I'm a deaf hack! [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[Rupe]

Re: Live rig suggestion

You are failing to mention that different rooms typically require tweaking the EQ. Also, copping a tone off of an album frequently doesn't hold up in a live situation. Metallica is a great example. Through trial and error I learned that copping tones from Ride the Lightning sounded great in the confines of my rehearsal space, but got lost in the mix when I played with my band. By bumping the mids, that whole dynamic changed. Metallica obviously learned this somewhere along the way as the first time I saw them on the MOP tour they sounded terrible, a wall of noise, but a few years later they sounded awesome and you could actually decipher the guitar parts...they were no longer all buzz and mud.
Is it easy for you to tweak on the fly or do you use the same tones in all situations? And when programming tones are truly copping the exact sound, or do you take the live dynamic into consideration? [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Live rig suggestion

[ QUOTE ]
You are failing to mention that different rooms typically require tweaking the EQ. Also, copping a tone off of an album frequently doesn't hold up in a live situation. Metallica is a great example. Through trial and error I learned that copping tones from Ride the Lightning sounded great in the confines of my rehearsal space, but got lost in the mix when I played with my band. By bumping the mids, that whole dynamic changed. Metallica obviously learned this somewhere along the way as the first time I saw them on the MOP tour they sounded terrible, a wall of noise, but a few years later they sounded awesome and you could actually decipher the guitar parts...they were no longer all buzz and mud.
Is it easy for you to tweak on the fly or do you use the same tones in all situations? And when programming tones are truly copping the exact sound, or do you take the live dynamic into consideration? [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the beauty of my rig. My tone is the same in all situations. Occasionally I have had to dial down the global bass EQ if I am plugging into an exceptionally bottom heavy cabinet or up the global treble but for the most part I don't have to tweak anything. Of course, I always set up my live patches at the approximate volume level I will be gigging at. After close to 30 years of gigging I have a pretty good idea how loud I need to be onstage regardless of the venue.
The Boss GT-6 global EQ control is very handy. Its like a master EQ section for all my patches.

Another thing, I always boost the mids a tad higher for my live patches as opposed to the studio. Especially for the Mesa Rectifier patches. The base amp model I use for the majority of my patches are Matchless. Also, I build all my patches from scratch with no cabinet emulation except for some of my clean channels where I prefer a 4 x 10 cabinet model. On my Mesa Dual Rectifier patches I do a reverse EQ thing. I scoop the mids on the patch EQ and I boost the mids on the sub-EQ. The GT-6 allows me to stack effects and EQ's. That is another great "hidden" feature. I use a stacked double delay for Lynch solo's. 1 is Doubled and the other is stereo spread left to right with a 420ms delay. For Rhoads solo's I just switch off the 420ms delay and leave the doubler on because Randy usually double tracked his guitar solo's. It sounds really close especially when I use a Marshall patch and the built in MXR Distortion + model that is also built into the GT-6.

[Rupe]

Re: Live rig suggestion

I've never used the GT-6 but I'm intrigued by your description. The global EQ sounds like it is exactly what I would need if I wnet to a more versatile system like this. It's obvious to me that you know the tone game so I think I'll be checking one of these out when I get the chance. Do you have any clips?

[jgcable]

Re: Live rig suggestion

I am gonna post some in the next few days. I have been busy the last few days programming my EMU Proteus MPS Orchestral for a gig I have on Saturday for Vince Neals daughters charity just in case I need it. I am even considering breaking out my Mark III for this gig. It would be fun to see how I could handle an entire set of songs with only 1 amp tone. With that said, I am sure my rack system and my GT-6 will be there. I'm too chicken.

[jgcable]

Re: Live rig suggestion

[ QUOTE ]
"You simply can't use the guitar tone in Round and Round for Lay it Down."

Those are different guitar sounds?

Yup. It's official. I'm a deaf hack! [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep Chuck they are as different as You Really Got Me and Atomic Punk are.
Lay it Down's opening guitar riff has what sounds like a distorion pedal, its scooped and there is a large hall reverb on it. The germanium diode sounding distortion on it sounds alot like a Proco Rat pedal. I wonder if thats what Demartini used? Round and Round sounds more like a straight up Marshall or Laney amp. British sounding with a good amount of mids. Crosby always had the better tone of the 2 guitars to me. More bottom and mids. Kind of like the difference between Malcolm and Angus but heavier.

[horns666]

Re: Live rig suggestion

from what I remebered Warren did use a Pro Co Ratt.....probably just because it was called a "Ratt"...

[sambencuda]

Re: Live rig suggestion

[ QUOTE ]
I am even considering breaking out my Mark III for this gig. It would be fun to see how I could handle an entire set of songs with only 1 amp tone. With that said, I am sure my rack system and my GT-6 will be there. I'm too chicken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the biggest advocate of your tone John. It works real well with my tone, but can you imagine how badass it would be if you brought the Mark III? That combined with my Rectifier would burn that place! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Rupe]

Re: Live rig suggestion

One of my buddy's bands is playing at the Skylar Neil Benefit...Trash Light Vision. The guitarist is Steve Haley...plays an old black LP Custom. If you get a chance to speak with him, tell him Bill Rupert says hello.

Regarding the LAy it Down tone, I read years ago where Warren said he used a straight Marshall for the intro and rhythm to Lay it Down. That was supposedly his magic head that George Lynch used to try to beg/borrow/steal from him to no avail.
That said, I have an old early 80's Rat and it nails that tone. You've got some million dollar ears. [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]