Recording direct from preamp to PC

[Inazone]

Excluding modelers, is it realistic to expect good results recording from a preamp directly to a sound card? I've put together a basic rack setup that should give me all of the capabilities of my live pedalboard rig, and I'd like to think that it will be suitable for studio use. However, most of the people I discuss it with are of the opinion that recording direct usually has pretty disappointing results.

I'm less curious about particular brands or models of equipment than I am about what components will or won't contribute to a good recorded sound, but for reference, my setup is: ART DST-4 preamp/processor, ART Tube Channel tube mic preamp/parametric equalizer/compressor, and Rocktron Guitar Silencer run either directly into an Echo Mia card or through a 4-channel mixer.

Obviously, musicians have been recording direct since long before modeling amps and software-based amp plugins came along. My preamp has cabinet-simulated XLR outs and usual 1/4" outs, and the individual components of the Tube Channel pre/comp/EQ can run independently of each other, so I could hypothetically run miked and direct at the same time. However, for home recording, I can't play at a volume sufficient for good results miking a cab.

[paulbag]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

I think it would be very possible for you to acheive great results. About four years ago, with very cheap equipment, I got some pretty decent results. My computer was absolute crap, I was using(still am) a $40.00 version of Cakewalk, an old Peavy Bandit, Ibenhad RG540, and an Alesis Quadraverb GT for eq. After lots of experimenting and trial and error I was able to produce this...
http://bandmix.com/av_bands/16713/Hatred.MP3

[StarRider]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

I have been recording directly to PC for years. You can get amazing results http://larryny1.tripod.com/sitebuild...times-rain.mp3

This is link to something I recorded directly to PC With some cheap Software, but I have a really good sound card Creative SB Audigy 2ZS Used my Strat, into a Fender Princton Chorus Amp then directly into the input of the sound card Recorded, Mixed, and Mastered on the PC. As far as recording distortion or overdrive You do need a device to correct the signal. I use Digitech Stomp Bxs which have an output to go straight to Mixing Boards or PCs and its tru to the pedals

Larry

[metallicarocks]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

Isn't that basically what a modeler is supposed to do anyway?

A couple of tips:

If you haven't read over Newc's recording posts, read them.

Second, do you have a noise gate? A huge reason for going modeling is to get rid of the noise (at least it is for me). If you go direct like this after effects and preamps, you're likely to get noise. Noise gates will alter your tone and could make it too choppy, but the alternative is probably less agreeable.

If you don't have a noise gate, record dry (distortion is okay, in fact recommended at this point) without any effects first (especially modulation and reverb), then use your software's noise removal. If you record with effects first then use the software's noise removal, it will sound horrible. Then again, the effects unit I was using wasn't awesome, you may be able to tweak out of it. After recording dry, really the only way to add effects is with the software. Soundforge has some really good tweakability and nice effects by the way.

[Inazone]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

Based on what I'm reading, I've got what I need. Between the preamp, EQ and gate, I'm about as well-equipped as should be necessary. If all else fails, I have my J-Station to fall back on.

Thanks for the replies.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

the art of recording direct (even if its preamp direct) is using this later

www.reamp.com

[Newc]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

That is for running your signal back out of the PC into your amp?
Interesting, but I get by just fine without that sorta thing. You do have to learn a bit more about EQ and speaker response without one, but then that particular unit seems to be a mono dump, so it looks like it's made to go only to a guitar amp, not a stereo setup for playback/monitoring.

You can definitely get Pro results with a preamp into a mixer into a soundcard. An Echo card should be even better than the SB Live I've been using, and I get store-bought-CD volume (or better) through software mastering.

As to the question of what will/won't contribute to a good recorded tone, everything you've listed above will do. You might have to re-eq it in the PC once it's recorded if the card colors the sound, but I suppose that Reamp box back out to your amp will help define what you need to tweak.
The downside, of course, is that you've already stated it's not possible to crank the amp at home, so the reamp would probably not help.

The other thing to remember is that a great guitar tone with a crappy "band" tone means wasted recording time. If you're running the guitar signal back out to an amp with a reamp or similar device, but the bass, drum, and vocal tracks aren't going back out through a P.A., you'll mix it incorrectly.

Keep everything in the same speakers at once and it'll mix better.

[jwoods986]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

Ok, let me get this straight. I want to start recording myself, for analyzing my playing or capturing cool riffs, ideas. I have a Korg AX1500G and a pretty kick-ass laptop from work (IBM T41, 1.6 Ghz Pent. M, 1.5 GB of RAM). From what I've read on the board here, am I correct that all I need is a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter to go from the Korg to my soundcard, then some kind of recording software for my laptop? It can't be that easy, can it? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

If your laptop has a Line In (not a Mic In), then yes, that's all you need.
If you DON'T have a Line In (it will either say "Line Input" or "Line" or "Mic/Line" or "Line In", and the input jack will probably be BabyBlue as they've now adopted color-coding standards) then you have to go in through a USB or Firewire port, and need a special USB/Firewire recording interface box.

I don't have one, so I can't say how good they are or how much they cost, but others have spoken of them here.

[Rupe]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

As long as your computer has a good soundcard with line-in, and your preamp has a cab simulator (or you have a red box, etc), you will be in business.

[metallicarocks]

Re: Recording direct from preamp to PC

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, let me get this straight. I want to start recording myself, for analyzing my playing or capturing cool riffs, ideas. I have a Korg AX1500G and a pretty kick-ass laptop from work (IBM T41, 1.6 Ghz Pent. M, 1.5 GB of RAM). From what I've read on the board here, am I correct that all I need is a 1/4" to 1/8" adapter to go from the Korg to my soundcard, then some kind of recording software for my laptop? It can't be that easy, can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just make sure you use that Korg unit! Without some sort of processor it will sound horrible.

If you're just trying to jot down ideas that aren't stressful on the ears to listen too because of how horrible the guitar sounds, don't sweat the soundcard, if you have somthing even half-modern, the workload really relies on the processor so you should be okay. If you're that worried, get a processor that goes in via USB. That would be the purest way of transferring the data. (I could be wrong on that one, I'm just using my own dangerous common sense)

If you want a clean cut demo to take to possible venue tryouts, I'd worry about the soundcard.

[ QUOTE ]
The other thing to remember is that a great guitar tone with a crappy "band" tone means wasted recording time.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. If you've got your dream axe running through a triple rectifier and the rhythm guitarist has a Squier running through an Ibanez toneblaster practice amp, it'll take your hard earned track (and $$$ for ;your gear) and take a hefty, diahhreal shit all over it. Peanuts and all. The rest of the band may kill you for it, but go back and fix every single little fuck up possible.

Speaking of fuckups-a pristine, perfect track recorded with the soundblaster where you've reset and gone back to fix things will sound better than that Triple recto with little stumbles that "can slide by". It's a pain in the ass, but be a perfectionist!

Also, in the field of metal USE A METRONOME TRACK!!!!!!! We use all sorts of rhythms that the other pussy genres don't mess with, and we have a lot of space between notes. That contributes to the difficulty. (Notice that Latin-Jazz and Funk-Jazz has a lot of space. Hardest shit on the planet!) A metronome track can be programmed to be absolutely perfect. If you and the metronome aren't clicking together, guess who's wrong?

You're processor speed plays a large role in multitrack recording. If you're processor is slow, you're not going to be able to play many tracks back at the same time. You're processor only needs to tweak once to fuck up that perfect take. I'm no processor expert, but you should be okay with at least four tracks on your 1.6 ghz. I'd be willing to bet that you can get away with more.