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Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

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  • Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

    Just a little real world review.
    My band CHASE had a gig friday night. I brought my Mesa Boogie Mark III and my pedal board full of stomp boxes.
    In the loop I ran a DD-6, CH-1, TU-2. In front of the amp I ran a Bad Horsie 2. I used the custom solo boost feature on my Mark III along with the Mesa channel switcher. I ran it through my Mesa 3/4 back 1 x 12 cabinet sitting on a stand. Jim used his trusty Single Rectifier, his G-Major in the loop with a Ground Control controller, a Bad Horsie 2 in front of the amp and he ran it through a supplied Behringer 4 x 12 cabinet.
    Because I used a 1 x 12 cab I was able to turn the amp up a little (the master on 3).
    Our sounds was 100% excellent. My Mark III filled the room up with a 1 x 12 unmic'd!!! Twin Boogies on stage really can't be beat in regards to tone, punch, clarity and the ability to cut through a mix with absolutely no problem.
    Its incredible that a 1 x 12 cab could sound so huge.

    On Sunday I had an extended rehearsal/writing session with AFTERMATH. I was going to bring the Mark III again but it was much more convenient to bring the Boss GT-6 and plug it into the effects return of my 5150II head that is at the rehearsal space. The tone was outstanding. We had a very successful session and the flexability of the GT-6 had a lot to do with it. We were programming on the fly using flangers, phasers, harmonizers and the ring modulator to add layered guitar tracks to a few songs live. I did experience again though a problem with hearing myself when next to the other block letter 5150. I mentioned it and suggested that I run a line out from the GT-6 to the board. Problem solved. Just a trickle of my sound in the PA was enough to solve the problem.
    Bottom line, both rigs sound great. I prefer to play the Boogie live. It feels better. MUCH better.
    The biggest thing I notice between modeling and tubes is a modeling based system doesn't allow you to vary your sound very much by messing with your guitars controls or switching guitars. You have to rely on patches and presets.
    On the other hand, a tube based system gives all the control to you right at your guitar. Rolling the volume or tone or switching pickups or switching guitars really makes a big difference. I prefer it.

  • #2
    Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

    I think it also depends on what modelling system you're using - I can get a lot of tonal differences with the Vetta by rolling off the volume or changing guitars, but not all modelling amps do that. Bottom line? Use what ya like! I'm keeping the Vetta because it's a different flavor and still useful. But it sure was fun blasting the JSX on an outdoor stage [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

    Pete

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    • #3
      Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

      Boogie Mark III and Recto is probably THE BEST combination for THE BEST guitar tone IMO. You should stick with that.

      Anyway IF I start giging again I think I'll gonna buy bunch of stuff and build a stereo rig, Mark III and Recto running at the same time, one left the other right. I want to get the best of both worlds, more vintage tone from Mark III (similar tone that John Sykes used) and modern Hi-gain tone from Recto (something that Dream Theater or some Nu-Metal band uses), and combining them together with at least 2 cabs. This is THE TONE for my taste.
      "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

      "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

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      • #4
        Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

        [ QUOTE ]
        Boogie Mark III and Recto is probably THE BEST combination for THE BEST guitar tone IMO. You should stick with that.

        Anyway IF I start giging again I think I'll gonna buy bunch of stuff and build a stereo rig, Mark III and Recto running at the same time, one left the other right. I want to get the best of both worlds, more vintage tone from Mark III (similar tone that John Sykes used) and modern Hi-gain tone from Recto (something that Dream Theater or some Nu-Metal band uses), and combining them together with at least 2 cabs. This is THE TONE for my taste.

        [/ QUOTE ]

        I noticed when listening to the Mark III on one side and the Single Rectifier on the other that the Mark III really can't be considered "vintage" sounding. It's an unmistakeble tone. As soon as you hear it you recognize it. Live and turned up it leans more towards the Rectifier tone but with more midrange and a tad clearer. Its absolutely the best sounding amplifier I have ever owned and I have had many!! Maybe the best word to describe it is articulate.
        Every single note rings out. Bang out a heavy chord and you can here every note. It also has so much sustain that I can shred with VERY little gain.

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        • #5
          Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

          well Mark sounds more vintage compared to Recto Nu-metal [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

          vintage as pre-90's
          "There is nothing more fearful than imagination without taste" - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

          "To be stupid, selfish and have good health are three requirements for happiness, though if stupidity is lacking, all is lost" - Gustave Flaubert

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          • #6
            Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

            [ QUOTE ]
            well Mark sounds more vintage compared to Recto Nu-metal [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

            vintage as pre-90's

            [/ QUOTE ]

            [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

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            • #7
              Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

              You get the best of both worlds using both. I personaly wouldn't use a modeler live but thats just me. They are a great practice tool and recording tool for late night sessions where the wife and kids are sleeping. They are consistent and pack a lot of options in one box. Home use is where they end for me, they wouldn't see a stage that I was on but I'm old school....
              shawnlutz.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                [ QUOTE ]
                I think it also depends on what modelling system you're using - I can get a lot of tonal differences with the Vetta by rolling off the volume or changing guitars, but not all modelling amps do that.

                [/ QUOTE ]
                Exactly! The GT-8 I just got mentions in the manual that the guitar's volume control will change the dynamics of the tone... and it really does! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I guess this was just one of the upgraded features of the GT-8 over the GT-6.
                I feel my soul go cold... only the dead are smiling.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                  [ QUOTE ]
                  [ QUOTE ]
                  I think it also depends on what modelling system you're using - I can get a lot of tonal differences with the Vetta by rolling off the volume or changing guitars, but not all modelling amps do that.

                  [/ QUOTE ]
                  Exactly! The GT-8 I just got mentions in the manual that the guitar's volume control will change the dynamics of the tone... and it really does! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I guess this was just one of the upgraded features of the GT-8 over the GT-6.

                  [/ QUOTE ]

                  It is an upgrade and a really nice one! The GT-6 still sounds great though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                    [ QUOTE ]
                    You have to rely on patches and presets.
                    On the other hand, a tube based system gives all the control to you right at your guitar. Rolling the volume or tone or switching pickups or switching guitars really makes a big difference. I prefer it.

                    [/ QUOTE ]
                    Welcome to the club [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
                    The true difference to me between any of my tube amps and any modelers I have used has more to do with feel than tone. I was playing in a funk band in the late 90's and had to use my POD direct because my Matchless Chietain decided it didn't like it's power tubes that night and I had failed to bring replacements (which I almost always do...Murphy's Law I suppose). Everyone I spoke to thought the tone was awesome but I was in pure hell because it didn't feel right...the little nuances were all gone. The crowd will probably never know the difference between modeling and the real thing , but your hands and ears always will.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                      You know, John.

                      I say drop all of that extra stuff and just run it dry;

                      MK III
                      Axe of choice
                      Perhaps some delay pedal
                      Wah pedal.

                      Imho that's the ticket to success. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]
                      You took too much, man. Too much. Too much.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                        [ QUOTE ]
                        You know, John.

                        I say drop all of that extra stuff and just run it dry;

                        MK III
                        Axe of choice
                        Perhaps some delay pedal
                        Wah pedal.

                        Imho that's the ticket to success. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

                        [/ QUOTE ]

                        That is basically all I am using. The only other pedal I use is a CH-1 Chorus and I only use it for a few songs.
                        My loop really only has a delay, the chorus and my tuner in it and I have the wah in front of the amp. My Mark III has a solo boost mod that is footswitchable and I also use the Mesa footswitch to change channels. At the gig I didn't even use the clean channel. I just rolled the volume off of the lead channel and it cleaned up enough for my needs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                          I had a conversation with John on the ride up that I was considering trying a Vetta. I like the flexibility of the g-major running throuh the recto, but I played an HD 147 that day at GC and I was blown away.

                          Fast forward to the gig. I can;t believe how good the recto and the Mark III sound together. For two amps that produce totally different tones, they lock in together like you wouldn't believe. Iam still going to try a Vetta or an HD147. I need to gig with one to really tell if it's the way I want to go.
                          "My G-Major can blow me!" - Bill

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                          • #14
                            Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                            [ QUOTE ]
                            I can;t believe how good the recto and the Mark III sound together.

                            [/ QUOTE ]
                            Then why change anything? Sounds to me like the downside of a move to a different rig is much greater than the upside.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Modeling or Tubes or BOTH!!!

                              Well, It's kinda hard to explain. With this setup, it's very one demensional. The Rectifier does what it does very well, but thats all it does. If I were in an original band, this is the tone I would be going for. It would be how I want to sound. Being in a cover band isn't much different except that we play hard rock covers from the 70's all the way up to the present. My tone is great for Godsmack, but terrible for Grand Funk Railroad. I was so impressed with the HD 147 that it made me think, if the metal amp models are this good, why not get a vetta with everything and have all grounds cover. Plus, I would have an amp, some cables and FBV and my guitars.

                              I'm not saying I'm switching over to modeling, but I would like to play a few gigs with a vetta to get the feel for it. Maybe I'll hate it. Who knows until you try. Other advantages would be a killer clean channel. I'm having a hard time getting a clean sound that doesn't break up.

                              It's funny, John's coming from modeling to tubes and i;m looking at going from tubes to modeling! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                              When he was using his GT-6, it sounded grat with the Rectifier, but man, the recto/Mark III one two punch was killer for sure.
                              "My G-Major can blow me!" - Bill

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