5150 vs. TripleXXX

[Fragle]

hey guys

as i already said in my other thread, i'm definitely selling my engl blackmore head after using a 5150 for one live show. the 5150 just kicks the engl's ass in every respect as far as i'm concerned.
however, i figured i could also consider the XXX, as i like the idea of having two different lead channels (one for rhythm one for lead basically). i don't have any first hand experience with the xxx other than a short 5min GC tryout, though, whereas i KNOW that the 5150 would suit me in a live situation.
to give you an idea what type of sound i'm looking for, this is how i had the 5150 (MK 1 by the way) set up for the last gig
emg81 loaded jackson -> hi input -> gain 4, bass 6, mid 7, treble 4, resonance 7, presence 0, master 4 -> marshall 1960 B with 75w celestions
this gives a quite mid rich and punchy rhythm tone, with a tad more highend fuzz than i like, though. but overall it's very nice.
could the XXX also do this? i've been told the 5150 is much more organic than the xxx which is said to be quite sterile. i imagine the xxx is also more difficult to dial in than a 5150 due to the active tone controls.
as i don't need a clean channel, i could also use the rhythm channel with the crunch engaged either for lead or for rhythm, but then i'd have to get a 5150 II in order to have seperate tone controls, and the II is said to be quite different from the I - namely less gain and bass, and more highs....i could deal with less gain and bass, but more highs...nono

any thoughts? the engl will be up on evilbay tomorrow, thats for sure.

[jgcable]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

I think the 5150 sounds better than the XXX in every repect for metal. I like the 5150II best because the clean channel is REALLY good. For the money, nothing can touch a 5150 for metal. I think the XXX only has 2 METAL useable channels anyway. The extra middle channel is a waste.

[charvelguy]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

Is a modded Marshall useable for metal? Then the crunch Channel on a XXX is not useless for metal IMO. What kind of metal we talking here? brass or pewter? I think the middle channel is perfectly useable for old school.

[Fragle]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

well, as i said, i don't need a clean sound. if i got a 5150 i'd likely end up using both channels set for a lead/rhythm sound respectively.

furthermore, you guys should also keep in mind that here in europe the 5150 isn't anywhere near as cheap as it is in the US. an used 5150 goes for around 850 on the 'bay, and the 6505 is around 1100 new. the 5150 used to be 950 new.
a new tripleXXX is about 1200 euro, and because they rarely pop up on ebay (well, as does the 5150) they tend to go for around 900 euro.

although it might sound strange to you american guys, i'm basically about to TRADE in an ENGL head for a "cheap" peavey....

[aldog1330]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

Fragle, don't rule out the possibility of using a good boost in front of the 5150 to get you from a rythym to a lead tone, if that is all you are looking for extra.

Has the 5150 you played been biased or had any mods done to them? I've heard good stories about the work a few modders in New York have done to 5150's to increase warmth, reduce fizz, etc. I've played an XXX, and while I think its a decent amp, I don't like it better than my Ultra Plus (the predecessor, which many say is very 5150ish) with good tubes in it. I will agree with Charvelguy though and say that the crunch channel is very useable for old school thrash. There is definitely enough gain on tap there. Also, do you really need a dedicated clean channel? Or does the shared eq of the 5150 do enough for you to get by?

Edit: Just saw your post about not needing a clean channel, so disregard that.

[noodlesatf]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

[ QUOTE ]
I think the XXX only has 2 METAL useable channels anyway. The extra middle channel is a waste.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play leads? The middle channel is pretty much the hot-rodded Marshall sound, and perfect for metal leads IMHO.

[charvelguy]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

The active tone on the XXX is a blessing IMO, not a hinderment. I'm sure there would be a few people here who would be interested in consideration of trading with you a 5150 for a ENGL even with the shipping cost difference of going to Germany bearing in mind.

[Fragle]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

the 5150 i played was a stock one, signature series, with quite old tubes actually.

the thing about using a boost in front of the lead channel for is that this only boosts gain, but not volume. i think i could get away without a gainboost, but i REALLY need a volume boost, as soundguys tend to fuck this up way too often. surely, some added gain would be nice, but it's not as necessary as the volumeboost. thats the thing i really love about the engl heads - two switchable master volumes. i was already thinking about getting a 5150 and mod it so that the rhythm post gain is a second master volume, and the rhythm pre gain is directly feeding the poweramp (and set to zero - mute for tuning purposes). however, once i discovered that the rhythm channel has enough gain for leads i quickly dropped this idea [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[aldog1330]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

If you need just a volume boost, then maybe add an eq pedal? Just throwing thoughts out.

The active eq's on the XXX/Ultra Plus are great, they just take a lot of work to dial in, since every little change on one control affects the rest.

[charvelguy]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

There's a few 'clean' boosts out there where the boost is supposedly the same across the spectrum and not a 'distortion' per say. I used to use a Micro amp just for this purpose. SD made a pedal with a similar purpose. There's a few more I've seen, can't recall who makes em.

[jgcable]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

[ QUOTE ]
the 5150 i played was a stock one, signature series, with quite old tubes actually.

the thing about using a boost in front of the lead channel for is that this only boosts gain, but not volume. i think i could get away without a gainboost, but i REALLY need a volume boost, as soundguys tend to fuck this up way too often. surely, some added gain would be nice, but it's not as necessary as the volumeboost. thats the thing i really love about the engl heads - two switchable master volumes. i was already thinking about getting a 5150 and mod it so that the rhythm post gain is a second master volume, and the rhythm pre gain is directly feeding the poweramp (and set to zero - mute for tuning purposes). however, once i discovered that the rhythm channel has enough gain for leads i quickly dropped this idea [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

For solo boost you need to put the pedal in the loop. Just grap a DOD 250 or YJM308 or a Boss OD03 or SD-1 and you are good to go. Lot of guys use the Boss GE-7 in the loop for boost too.

[Twisteramps]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

I think the XXX and JSX both have plenty of gain in the 2nd channel to play metal... Then again, it depends on what you call metal. For me, old Ozzy is metal [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Pete

[buzzsaww]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

I used to have a XXX. I grew to hate it and sold it off. The clean channel is really flat. I would almost say shitty. The crunch channels are ridiculous. It's got so much gain it's like an SS amp. Even backing off the gain it still turns whatever you put into it into a ham sandwich.

[Fragle]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

mh....thats exactly what i've been told by many people.

as i said, i already tried one briefly in a store, but that was quite some time ago....lets see what i can recall.
i though the highs were a bit brittle and harsh. the second channel was ok for leads. i liked the cleans. it was VERY gainy, i think i had it at like 4 on the ultra channel. i don't know where i set the damping switch, so the brittle highs might be due to this one.
the thing that turns me off is that the damping switch is basically the same as the presence and resonance controls that are adjusted at the same time.....tight=low res and pres, loose = high res and pres. the thing is, if it's anything like the 5150 i bet i'd like to have the resonance quite high but the presence off.

by the way, old ozzy IS metal as far as i'm concerned. however, i'm playing thrash/death metal, with a thrash guitar sound....the marshall 2210 i have does the trick VERY well, except i'd like to get a little more brutal. the 5150 to me sounds like a 2210 with more gain and bottom end and a slightly fuzzier feel. thats exactly what i'm looking for, except for the fuzz [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] basically, think exodus - pleasures of the flesh, the overall timbre is the same. i just like more gain and bass in my rhythm sound. my 2210 as it is sounds like this exodus record, but chunkier. i'd like to get even chunkier, you know [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

let me tell you one thing. i'm pretty much NEVER concerned about a modern amp having not enough gain. as long as it has the gain of a marshall jcm800 2210 i'm fine.

[jgcable]

Re: 5150 vs. TripleXXX

To me.. and maybe I am in the minority, but I felt the XXX sounded transistorized. It almost has a SS tone to it.
The 5150 on the other hand is a monster and sounds nothing like transistors. Since I owned a 2210 and I have owned a few 5150's I can say with some experience that if you are looking for a 2210 with alot more chunk and bottom the 5150 is a great choice. Its almost as loud too. The 5150 gets a little noisy at extreme gain settings but I did serious heavy shit with mine with the gain on 6. The 5150 has absolutely NO FUZZ at all. Its all gain and a very big sounding amp. Again.. I like the 5150II better than the original block letter 5150 because it has a better clean channel. The lead channels on both of them are VERY similar if not identical to my ears.