Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto etc.

[jgcable]

I had a mini shootout at a buddies house this weekend.
Amps involved:
Mesa Mark III Purple Stripe
Peavey 5150 signature MK1
Carvin Legacy
Carvin X100B
JCM800 2204 modded
2 channel Mesa Dual Rectifier


We ran all these amp heads through 3 different cabs:
Randall 2 x 12 with Celestions
Mesa oversized 4 x 12 bone stock
Marshall 1960A with Vintage 30's

All we are concerned about is 80's metal tone ala Whitesnake, Dokken, Ratt, Scorpions, Priest, Maiden, Metal Church, Accept, King Diamond, Malmsteen, Motley Crue.. etc... you get the idea..
No effects, no stomp boxes. Just guitar, amp and cabinet.
Winners Clean tone NO EFFECTS:
X100B
Legacy
Dual Rectifier
5150
Mark III
JCM800

Heavy Rhythm tone NO EFFECTS:
Dual Rectifier
Mark III
JCM800
5150
Legacy
X100B

Heavy Lead (solo) tone NO EFFECTS:
Mark III
Legacy
JCM800
5150
Dual Rectifier
X100B

SHEER VOLUME:
Mark III
5150
Legacy
Dual Rectifier
JCM800
X100B

Versatility:
Mark III
Dual Rectifier
Legacy
5150
JCM800
X100B

The cabinets were all pretty obvious in how they reacted to each amp.
The Randall 2 x 12 loaded with Celestions was the tightest and the most focused.
The Marshall was the best overall for lows, mids and highs.
The Mesa is the best specifically for low end chunk, dropped and alternate tunings.

He also had a Vetta 2 head there. It is impossible to put in words how good a properly dialed in Vetta sounds.
You would have to judge a properly dialed in Vetta for yourself. Even though a Vetta is an amp just like all the other ones, its really like comparing apples and oranges.

In the end, the 3 of us agreed that we couldn't agree on which amp we would choose if we could only have just 1. The Carvin Legacy is a real surprise though. You should check one out if you get the chance. Its a fantastic sounding amp and it begs you to use it. It also really does give you a Vai tone. If you use stomp boxes for distorion you should consider a used X100B. It absolutely has the loudest clean channel with a ton of headroom and it takes pedals very well.
We agreed that the Mark III DOES have mojo and a vibe to it. It feels alive. You can actually feel the tubes when you play. When playing rhythm its articulate and it sounds MASSIVE. WHen playing solo's it sings with rich harmonics and an unmistakeable tone.
The 5150 is a monster. So is the Dual Rectifier. They sound completely different from each other but they both fall into the MONSTER category. They are both a mans amp. If you want to knock shit down or prove a point you need to own one of these amps.
I am convinced that no matter what mods you do to a JCM800 it will always sound like a Marshall. Thank goodness for that. For straight up rock.. nothing beats it. NOTHING.

[GodOfRhythm]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

Mk III baby [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[thebisch]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

I have been running a Carvin Lagacy with a Marshall '74 4x12 with 25 watt Celestions in it for over 5 years now (the Legacy LOVES greenbacks!). No need or desire to change after all this time. How many players can say their rig hasn't changed in 5 years!

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

Man, played a couple Legacy's... I have never found love for them at all.. Not bad I guess... Just not good for me.

[siggy14]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

pretty good reveiw, the newer 3 channel dual rec's are so much more versitile as well and do sound a bit different, better in my ears.

As to sheer volume, marshalls are you usually known to be loud, i would assume that little 50 watter kept up pretty well with the other 100 watters. And I agree, A marshall will always sound like a marshall, my favorite amps right now are my two 2204's and i love taking my SD-1 pedal and boosting them.

I have never tried the Mark III or the Legacy, but i heard the legacy is very mid heavy and i have seen Lit use them live in concert and he had a very good tone, but was very mid heavy. I have a feeling these amps would sound great through a cabinet with the celestion 75's since those speakers have a mid cut.

I also agree on the difference's between the 5150 and the rec, they ae both monster amps, however the Rec is more suited for heavy rythem or by cutting the gain down you can get a great rock tone out of it. where i find the 5150's loose there flavor as you take more gain out of them to try to get that rock tone, it seem to be great for heavy music.

I find the 5150's to be more of a mix between a rec and a marshall and a great in between amp and great bang for the buck. If you want a good heavy rythem amp that also sounds good soloing and you are on a budget the 5150 or 5150II is the way to go. however if you want monster bottom end get a Rec and for solo's use a OD pedal to boost it and it also solo's great.

Now i know bill will chime in about the uber if he hasnt allready by the time i am done writting this, so let me give you my take on the uber, great heavy amp and solo's better then a rec without a pedal. However to my ears i find the rec to have more of a natural sounding tube distortion and more organic, where i find the uber to sound less organic. Not saying the uber is a bad amp, i just prefer the more organic tube sound that the rec has to offer and for alot less money i get way more versitility and peice of mind knowing i am using a amp that has been toured by many and is very reliable. But at the same time this is also a downside to the rec, toured and used by many and even though you can dial in alot of sounds with them, they still sound like a rec, thank god alot of groups have turned to different amps now and we are getting alot of different sounds out there.

Just my 2 cents here.

[horns666]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

Man, played a couple Legacy's... I have never found love for them at all.. Not bad I guess... Just not good for me.

+ 1

BTW..The Uber has chunks of ALL these amps in its stool.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[siggy14]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

[ QUOTE ]
Man, played a couple Legacy's... I have never found love for them at all.. Not bad I guess... Just not good for me.

+ 1

BTW..The Uber has chunks of ALL these amps in its stool.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Not bashing bill or cleveland, just remember when playing metal most people love cut mids, so a heavy mid amp like the legacy will not always be your best bet unless you are doing alot of soloing, however this is a great rock amp/punk rock amp.

As to the uber, i dont find it with any more bottom end then a mesa, and for me i just prefer the mesa distortion over the ubers, however if i was playing lead in a band where i had to do alot of soloing i would probaly grab an uber over the mesa.

[jgcable]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

The other thing we noticed about the Legacy is that it was very easy to dial in a good tone. The clean channel is stellar. It is.. VERY midrangy. I wouldn't call it a crushing rhythm tone but for the soloist... its a great amp. To me.. its the best sounding amp that Carvin has released to date. I could easily use it as my only amp if I could only have 1. The "hidden" feature that everybody talks about is the ability to roll the guitar volume down on the gain channel and totally clean up the signal. I didn't find that feature too stunning. Most of the amps we tried did the same thing. If you love Vai and you can play like him and you want to sound like him with minimal tweaking.. its the perfect amp. Just add a G-Major in the loop and your pretty much there. It is also very versatile and REALLY LOUD. I am a soloist (lead guitar player primarily) so I tend to gravitate towards amps like the Legacy or the Mark III.

[Chuckracer]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

I've heard thebisch's set up, that Legacy with the greenback cab, man! You guys would be amazed at how good it sounds! I was floored!
The other guitarist in thebisch's band uses an SLO, and you all know how I feel about the SLO...honestly, thebisch's sound that night owned!
I need to take another look at the Legacy.

[jgcable]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

[ QUOTE ]
I've heard thebisch's set up, that Legacy with the greenback cab, man! You guys would be amazed at how good it sounds! I was floored!
The other guitarist in thebisch's band uses an SLO, and you all know how I feel about the SLO...honestly, thebisch's sound that night owned!
I need to take another look at the Legacy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats how we felt Chuck. We went into this not really expecting much from the Legacy. Especially when compared to the 5150,Dual Rectifier and the Mark III. The Legacy really surprised us. I actually keep thinking about it since we did the shootout.

[horns666]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

Hmmmm..of all these Amps..this is how I rate them..In this order.

1,)JCM800 2210 ..best Marshall head made to my ears...I can play em without stomps...very sweet lead tone the best lead tone of the bunch.
2,)5150...best METAL amp for the buck..prefer the definition of a vintage Masrshall more...Very thick , smooth and chunky tone..leads tones are a bit "dead".
3,)MRK III..great tone , enough gain without a stomp..but , a little too saggy for my style.
4,)Carvin X100B ...classic smooth overdrive..I like the gain structire..but not enough gain for what I do without a stomp..
5.) Recto..ewww..what can I say ..they have "chunk" they have "girth" but the "FUZZ" and "SIZZLE" is there no matter how you dial the eq..I have ZERO use for retos...DSL's tried to go with the Nu metal "Fuzz" BS too.
6.) Legacy , I was looking forward to playing/hearing this amp until John and I did..very dull tone and gain structure..very uninspiring for me..played it ONCE and never gave it a second chance or thought.

[siggy14]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm..of all these Amps..this is how I rate them..In this order.

1,)JCM800 2210 ..best Marshall head made to my ears...I can play em without stomps...very sweet lead tone the best lead tone of the bunch.
2,)5150...best METAL amp for the buck..prefer the definition of a vintage Masrshall more...Very thick , smooth and chunky tone..leads tones are a bit "dead".
3,)MRK III..great tone , enough gain without a stomp..but , a little too saggy for my style.
4,)Carvin X100B ...classic smooth overdrive..I like the gain structire..but not enough gain for what I do without a stomp..
5.) Recto..ewww..what can I say ..they have "chunk" they have "girth" but the "FUZZ" and "SIZZLE" is there no matter how you dial the eq..I have ZERO use for retos...DSL's tried to go with the Nu metal "Fuzz" BS too.
6.) Legacy , I was looking forward to playing/hearing this amp until John and I did..very dull tone and gain structure..very uninspiring for me..played it ONCE and never gave it a second chance or thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill they were using a 2204 in this shootout, just wanted to clear that up.

As to the recto, i find the bogner to be just as fuzzy and buzzy, that is part of pre amp distortion, however i also did not find it hard to dial it out on either amp. I am guessing you either had a bad sounding rec, which is hard to find or considering how long ago you tried it maybe your ears were different.

Just take a look at how many great recordings have been done with Rec's that dont sound Buzzy or Fuzzy, personaly ia m starting to think you just have a hate for some reason on them and are not willing to give them a good chance.

As to the DSL, well that is a plan rock amp to heavy rock, by no means a metal amp!

[horns666]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

Sigs..did you play with an Uber longer than a few minutes at a time..and in those minutes did you ever MAX the gain / treble / bass..its the ONLY way I get MY tone...which is AWESOME! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Well Siggs, I highly "DOUBT" you ever played an Uber..because that is not what a Uber is about.

Well you haven't heard mine..I know that much.. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

Well Siggy, although I play metal, I don't cut mids, I generally boost them. Particularly, I just found the Legacy to be too sedate for me, not enough crunch or edge. Maybe if I was in a blues, or classic rock band it would work for me I guess.

Then again, I hate the MESA as well, they are too loose in the low end for me. Sucks, as I hear others sounding great, and I just can't get it myself. And I have played with the rectos a lot.

[horns666]

Re: Mark III, 5150, Legacy, X100B, JCM800, Recto

yeah Siggs..I never heard a recto before..really, what do they look like , or sound like..Nobody around here ever carries them or ever plays them...NEVER!

Guitar Center has no clue what I'm talking about..they never heard of the "rectos" before.. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

I can't waite to try one.. [img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img]

they must be RARE!!! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]