The stomp boxes are the problem!!

[jgcable]

You guys know my rig... Carvin T100, Soldano SP77, Rane SP15 Parametric EQ. I also have a pedal board consisting of a TU-2, CH-1, DD-6, GE-7 and an AC-2.
When the pedal board is inserted in the chain my sound goes from godlike to canned ass like. It sounds like somebody put a blanket over the speakers. It looses all clarity, sparkle and definition. I tried removing the pedal board from the chain and it sounds incredible. I then tried removing 1 pedal at a time until I got my killer sound back. When I got down to only 2 pedals my sound was back to its normal killer self. I only need to add 1 pedal more and the sound turns back into canned ass. Here is what I think the problem is. I have a severe line level mismatch. 2 pedals is still probably affecting the sound but not enough for me to hear. When I add a 3rd pedal the mismatch is too great and the great sound goes bye-bye. I put the CH-1 in front of the amp with my Bad Horsie wah and a pedal tuner and it still sounded great. I just can't have more than 2 pedals in the loop so I chose the DD-6 and the GE7 for solo boost. Sounds to me like I have to ditch all my pedals and get an Intellifex or a G-Major or something like that. Is there any device that will change the line level on a stomp box so that it is more like the line level of an effects processor?

[toddstaples]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

isnt that VHT valveulator thing supposed to do that?

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

If you are running the pedals between that preamp and the power amp... That is the issue. I mentioned this previously. They aren't designed to work with line level signals like that, they are quite different impedances.

Pedals in front. Line level rack stuff in the "loop" or between the preamp and power amp. This isn't a "loop" like a amp has, it is a line level path. Many amps will do ok with pedals in their loop.

You have entered the high end equipment zone, and issues will pop up showing a piece of lesser equipment's limits. Sometimes it can be a good thing, usually not so good.

Bear in mind, even cheap rack stuff will kill tone.

As I said before... You are running a pro grade high end preamp and nice power amp and putting a $50 pedal that was probably made for 8 dollars between them. Even if the impedances were right, that would be questionable as to the quality of sound the pedal could deal with. they are limited in many ways due to size, and cost.

How to the pedals sound in front?

[hippietim]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

You need to look at your cables too. I know when I run more than a couple pedals shitty cables stand out.

[jgcable]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

[ QUOTE ]
If you are running the pedals between that preamp and the power amp... That is the issue. I mentioned this previously. They aren't designed to work with line level signals like that, they are quite different impedances.

Pedals in front. Line level rack stuff in the "loop" or between the preamp and power amp. This isn't a "loop" like a amp has, it is a line level path. Many amps will do ok with pedals in their loop.

You have entered the high end equipment zone, and issues will pop up showing a piece of lesser equipment's limits. Sometimes it can be a good thing, usually not so good.

Bear in mind, even cheap rack stuff will kill tone.

As I said before... You are running a pro grade high end preamp and nice power amp and putting a $50 pedal that was probably made for 8 dollars between them. Even if the impedances were right, that would be questionable as to the quality of sound the pedal could deal with. they are limited in many ways due to size, and cost.

How to the pedals sound in front?

[/ QUOTE ]

The pedals sound fine in front but I absolutely have to have solo boost and putting a boost in front of the preamp only increases the gain. Also, the delay sounds horrible in front of the amp. Everything else is cool.
I'm dumping the pedals and going with a high end rack mount processor designed for my system. Screw this mismatched pedal line level crap. I'm going to sell a bunch of them and buy a G-Major and a footpedal. Done. I'm not compromising anymore.

[toejam]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

Use your GT6, throw them in the loop of that. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Rupe]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

[ QUOTE ]
Done. I'm not compromising anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now your onto something [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

John and Tim actually said all that needs to said on this matter. Heed that advice and you will be pleased with the results.

[StarRider]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

[ QUOTE ]
If you are running the pedals between that preamp and the power amp... That is the issue. I mentioned this previously. They aren't designed to work with line level signals like that, they are quite different impedances.

Pedals in front. Line level rack stuff in the "loop" or between the preamp and power amp. This isn't a "loop" like a amp has, it is a line level path. Many amps will do ok with pedals in their loop.

You have entered the high end equipment zone, and issues will pop up showing a piece of lesser equipment's limits. Sometimes it can be a good thing, usually not so good.

Bear in mind, even cheap rack stuff will kill tone.

As I said before... You are running a pro grade high end preamp and nice power amp and putting a $50 pedal that was probably made for 8 dollars between them. Even if the impedances were right, that would be questionable as to the quality of sound the pedal could deal with. they are limited in many ways due to size, and cost.

How to the pedals sound in front?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second that
+1

when ever I tried mixing rack and stomp bx's I just got a load of crap for a sound too

These days I tend to run an Amp Head with a Loop
for the Chorus, Delay, and Reverb

On my board I send
Wah Phaser Ods and EQ
to the Amp Input
I find this to give me the best sound

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

Yeah, amp heads tend to be more forgiving with stomps in the loop for some reason, probbaly impedances etc..

Save your pedals awhile, someday you might ditch your rack and buy a head for reason like practices etc... and you'll be crying.

[jgcable]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, amp heads tend to be more forgiving with stomps in the loop for some reason, probbaly impedances etc..

Save your pedals awhile, someday you might ditch your rack and buy a head for reason like practices etc... and you'll be crying.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am keeping my Boss GT-6 for my Boss effects and modeling fix. If I ever buy another head it will be a Soldano SLO100 and I will be using a G-major for that. I have a few tube combo's laying around for little jams and I still have my 5150II in New Jersey at my other rehearsal space.

[catzodellamarina]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

Since I went to the G-Major I won't go back to pedals. It's way too simple and a no brainer for a rack rig. I'll take a G-System if TCE wants to trade me even up. I'll even throw in a set of windchimes.

[Soloist1]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

I second what John said. Pedals just aren't line level compatible. Does the Carvin have a direct out? If so run the direct out of the dry preamp/power side to a pro level racks unit like the G major and run that through the other stereo side of the Carvin. Then you can balance the wet dry signal via the volume controls on the power amp.

[jgcable]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

Yea, the G-Major is the only way to go. What foot controller should I go for? I just need buttons. I am still going to use my Bad Horsie II pedal for wah and I don't ever use volume or expression pedals.
Basically, I need the G-Major for:
solo boost
delay
chorus
reverb
tuner
and to switch channels on my Soldano

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

Everyone will chime in Behringer... IMO I myself wouldn't bother with one. I know three people with them that use them playing out locally, all are broken in some way.

As much as I hate to say Rocktron these days, I have a Rocktron MidiMate that has been beaten on for 5 years without a glitch, flawless. Well, made and is highly programmable. Buttons might feel small for a while though. I guess you just hope that it doesn't break as service is a bummer. By an older US made one I'd guess. New ones are made offshore.

That, or the All Acccess which is a bit overkill for most of our purposes.

I hear the new Digital Music stuff is good now too. I have had bad experiences with them, but that was 6-8 years ago andthe product is supposed to have been improved a lot.

Just my opinion.

[Twisteramps]

Re: The stomp boxes are the problem!!

Cleve - my behringer footswitch/FCB1010 was bulletproof, but maybe I just got lucky.

John - it depends on the loop too. My VHT had a parallel or series setting, *and* could be set for pedals or rack gear. In my opinion, VHT's have the best loops, hands down - much better than anything else I've encountered.

Having said that, for what you're wanting to do - an all in one processor is the way to go.

Pete