Amps wattage vs 'loudness' questions

[InFlamed666]

Just wondering...

My 50w JCM800 2204 head is mega loud (running into a 1912 cab with 150w speaker), without my attenuator i cant put it above 1-2 in the house without it killing me.... but with the attenuator turning up past 5 doesnt seem to make much difference (ie i dont need to adjust the attenauation level)

When i had a 40w Fallen Angel combo (valve too) i could run the volume on 4 without attenuation and it was ok, in fact, it didnt seem to get that much louder past 6...

Is this a common thing with valve amps?

Do manufacturers have different interpretations as to what each volume position should sound like?

eg why not just make 10 louder, then run on ten?... these go to 11!

Only asking because i'm selling the JCM 800 to get a modern amp like an Engl.. but a 60w Fireball would mean id have to run it with volume on like 1 without attenuation when practicing at home\in my garage?

The Fallen Angel wasnt broken\had ok valves as i had it checked, it just wasnt 'as loud' as the Marshall.

Similarly, this makes me think something the 18w Budda Superdrive would be pretty quiet, and anything with a 100w would be ultra mental 'volume on 0.02' loud?

Cheers for any info! 'gos back to search function in mean time'

[zeegler]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

Not necessarily. I have 3 all tube 100 watt heads, and none of them are the same with regards to loudness. My Randall is ludicrously loud, but my BV120 is nowhere near as loud on the same settings.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

Consider too the spl (signal pressure level) of speakers. This can make a huge difference - a 100 watt amp through a low spl single 12" speaker that's open backed might not keep up as well as a 50 watt amp through a high spl 4x12. Amps can have a different taper too on the volume control. Wattage is a rough guide to loudness, but it can't be relied upon as an absolute. There are a lot of other considerations too - a 50 watt amp that has a lot of midrange would probably sound louder and cut through more than a 100 watt amp that was severely mid scooped.

Pete

[StarRider]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

Yup I noticed that over the years too
50w Marshalls kicking butt on 100w amps

[Inearthed]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

I had to run a Marshall vs100 or whatever about 3 weeks ago at practice, going up against a 2203. It wasn't even fair. The 2203 was at I think... barely 2? and I had to turn up to about 80% to even be heard.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

Depends on the amp's taper - that 2203 might have reached maximum volume at 3 or 4 and just become more compressed afterwards. Some amps keep getting louder and don't really compress that much at high volumes - just depends on the amp's design and the taper (type) of volume, whether it's audio or linear.

pete

[slayer]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

now, this is a great topic!! I have noticed this stuff also. Amps-cabs-speakers are so different that volume and loudness is so variable. I have heard 50 watt amps blow away 100+ watt amps and the opposite also. Jack.

[mab8485]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

On my crate red voodoo, I've found that the volume increases alot in the last 3-4 notches.

[Newc]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

I've got a little 4 watt amp that definitely cranks 100watts of audio pressure, cuz I compared it directly against a 100w head through the same cabinet (2x12).

Thanks again, Pete [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

[zeegler]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

[ QUOTE ]
I had to run a Marshall vs100 or whatever about 3 weeks ago at practice, going up against a 2203. It wasn't even fair. The 2203 was at I think... barely 2? and I had to turn up to about 80% to even be heard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you're talking tube versus solid state. Tube amps are almost always louder than a solid state amp with the same power rating.

[jgcable]

Re: Amps wattage vs \'loudness\' questions

I noticed a big difference too. For example:
My Soldano rack system is powered by a Carvin T100 power amp that is now running 5881's. Its a 100w power amp and I am running it in stereo 50w per side into a 8 ohm Mesa 3/4 back cabinet with 1 90w Black Shadow in it and a 16 ohm Randall 2 x 12 closed back cab with 75w Celestions in it.
It is insanely loud with the power amp on around 9 o'clock.
I brought my rack system to band practice in NJ to replace my 5150II head and I plugged it into a stock Peavey 5150 cab that is also wired in stereo. I checked the impedance on the cabinet and it read 7.5 ohms on one side and 12.6 on the other. (BTW... I also checked a Marshal 1960A cab that is there and also wired in stereo and it also read around 8 ohms on one side and around 13 on the other). Anyway... my Soldano rack system wasn't nearly as loud through that cabinet. I had to turn the power amp to 12:00 to get the same volume.