live metal and gain - some thoughts

[Deneb]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

I played this show, where there was already a back drop. Sinc ethey were running off of a generator, I decided to just use the amps on the back drop. Well my choices were a triple recto 2 channel, and a JCM900. well, I play a triple rec, 3 channel, so I figured, fuck it, I'll just play the Mesa.

The guy who owned the shit, ran sound for us at different shows. he said "man, I know you're not going ot like how I've got that amp set, you use a lot more gain than I do, I go for more crunch". That sentence really meant nothing to me. I always thought, Gain and Crunch were the same. Well, they are not. I got more of a Gak gak gak gak gak gak gakk gak gak gak gakk gak gak from less gain. It seemed like, it stuck out in the mix a bit better, and it was a lot more percussive. I still like high gain, but I try and back my gain off, to where I can still get good pick squeals, but it's not nearly like a Zakk Wylde/Dimebag style.

Then again, I do like the high gain. One gain sound, I really like, is STP Sex Type thing, but that's pretty high gain. I also REALLY like the gain on Queensryche "Desert Dance". I think that sounds VERY good.

Just my two cents.

[RacerX]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

[ QUOTE ]
Gak gak gak gak gak gak gakk gak gak gak gakk gak gak

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All your posts sound like this

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[metallicarocks]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

Will try that live. But in recording? I just cannot seem to get it to sound good panning the guitars that hard.

[metallicarocks]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

I immediatly retract that statement on recording. I've been panning the guitars only about 30-40% and it sounded like ass, so I reduced it to 10% and it sounded better. Out of curiosity, I just pulled up a recording and shoved each guitar to the sides at full 100%. I can hear the bass! It does sound better, much clearer and the heavy gain of both guitars isn't cutting eachother.

Thanks for the tip.

[charvelguy]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

[ QUOTE ]
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Gak gak gak gak gak gak gakk gak gak gak gakk gak gak

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All your posts sound like this [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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-too funny [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]


Anyways, on the topic...rhythm sound, I like a less gain saturated sound as it tends to be more punchy and dynamic..even solos where I prefer more gain than I would a rhythm setting, I like the notes to have sustain and ring clear, but also have a natural sounding decay. I'll tend to lean to the cleaner side of a gain tone without sacrificing dynamics and punchiness. I find with running a XXX around 5 in Crunch mode the gain is just about where I want it.

Good advice on changing it about according to the acoustics of the room..some stages sound alot more live...even stage cabinet placement can have a effect on the mix when the sound is bouncing all over the place.

[Fragle]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

the room acoustics thing is very interesting...i never thought of that. sure, every room requires different settings, but i never thought the gain was also affected by the room.

as for recording....i'm always amazed how anti-gainy most of the best recorded sounds are. a few examples would be megadeth - countdown to extinction, or rust in peace, as well as metallica's master of puppets. hell, even iced earth - something wicked this way comes. all these records sound great (imho), and all of them are basically loads of really low gain sounds double/triple/xxx tracked. i mean, i understand the concept of recording with less gain than what you think is necessary, but these are REALLY low gain. i'm willing to bet that the main guitar sound of countdown to extinction has hardly more gain than e.g. judas priest - screaming for vengeance. you can hear it for example right at the beginning of high speed dirt.

[Carbophos]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

Somehow I used to consider "mix-friendly" tone pleasant to my ears even playing alonå. The other day one guy came to my house to try my Mark IV and get detailed explanation of int numerous features. So just for demo we have set "deep V" on its EQ, and I thought "Oh my, I cant's stand this tone".

I use EQ, but just boost some lows and highs a bit. So when I switch EQ on and off I hear the almost same tone, just with some thump or mid emphasis respectively.

I also used to differ onstage tone and PA tone. Of course, it's nice to have "inspiring" tone onstage, but what most important is to have great overall PA mix and clear onstage/monitors mix. Mix-friendly tone will always cut through onstage.

And obviously onstage tone is a combination of direct tone, montitors tone and PA/room bleed. So there's almost no option to dial perfect onstage tone not sacrificing PA mix.

[Carbophos]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

[ QUOTE ]

as for recording....i'm always amazed how anti-gainy most of the best recorded sounds are. a few examples would be megadeth - countdown to extinction, or rust in peace, as well as metallica's master of puppets. hell, even iced earth - something wicked this way comes. all these records sound great (imho), and all of them are basically loads of really low gain sounds

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And AC/DC tone is indeed almost clean. So basically everything goes back to the overall band tightness and proper picking. And when it comes for leads - picking and phrasing.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

my favorite studio saying: "you can't polish a turd."

[Carbophos]

Re: live metal and gain - some thoughts

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"you can't polish a turd."

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...and even if you manage it will still stink [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]