the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

[Fragle]

looking at my gear, i should have all the tools needed for that very special and very popular swedish melodic (death) metal tone, a la in flames and soilwork, you know what i'm talking about.
i have a block letter 5150 that i retubed recently with svetlanas and a few different preamp tubes, boss ge7 (which i don't really use to be honest), various od pedals, various guitars including an emg81 loaded one, and last but not least my hands are ready and willing to kick some melodic death ass.

no matter how hard i try, i just cannot seem to nail it. using the emg loaded guitar helps some, so does using a tubescreamer (although the swede bands don't even use one!), but i'm still pretty far off....more so at high than at moderate (post gain around 2) volumes.

any ideas? what's the secret key i'm missing?
to me, the swedish tone is quite a midrangey one, with lotsa smooth and well defined highs (newer soilwork is a PERFECT example for that) and a not overwhelming bottom end, just enough to keep it from sounding thin. the thing is, the 5150 has so much mids at high volumes i just cannot seem to get the mids past noon without ending up in honk city, and i'm using 75w celestions instead of the super midrangey v30s!

ok, i just read through my post once again and maybe i should name a few albums that feature the very tone i'm talking about.....basically, think in flames - clayman, or soilwork - figure number five (great album imho)

[toddstaples]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

5150 Sheffield cabinet..

[Fragle]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

i've never played or even seen one, they seem to be quite rare over here. all i know is that andy sneap thinks they suck donkey balls.

[toddstaples]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

[img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

[ QUOTE ]
using the emg loaded guitar helps some, so does using a tubescreamer (although the swede bands don't even use one!)

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe Evergrey uses the 5150s with a Tubescreamer, and I thought The Haunted did, too, for some reason. That pedal defintely kicks up the midrange.
You might be better off changing out the G12T75s which have scooped mids, to the more midrangey V30s, or maybe putting in two V30s in an X pattern.

[Fragle]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

when i saw the haunted live a few weeks ago, they both used 5150 II heads, straight in except for a tu-2. jensen didn't even switch to the clean channel for e.g. my shadow, he just turned down the volume pot [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
the ts definitely adds a lot of mids. sounds kinda abrasive, thin, and in general unpleasant when playing without the band, but makes the guitar cut through nicely in a band context....i also prefer my marshall with the ts7 even though it has a good deal of mids, but the 5150 just NEEDS it to get anywhere near the tones i'm looking - keep in mind this is at high volume. at low volumes i'm quite close to what i'm looking for. maybe i just need more tweaking time at really earsplitting volumes.
one thing remains unchanged, though....it's not at all similar to the famous swede sound...?!

[Baum83]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

I can't get off Swedish territory when I'm using my 5150 II/Marshall V30 cab. I can play it with everything at noon and it still sounds Swedish, regardless of pickups. Though I have to admit that an 81 kinda pushes it even more in that direction.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

[ QUOTE ]
5150 Sheffield cabinet..

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus 1.

I have used Marshall 75s and 30, MESA 90s and 30s, Ampegs 75s, and other cabs, and NOTHING sounds as good with a 5150 than the matching cab. NOTHING.

With that cab, you can get more usable distortion and more usable resonance without farting out.

I definitely wouldn't use a tube screamer with one. Maybe the BBE 422a tho. Sounds good, but that isnt exactly needed for what the swedes are doing soundwise.

A lot of the "sound" is in their from the studio. See the bands live and you'll prolly find you are doing just fine attaining their sound.

[toddstaples]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

The only "other"cabinet Ive heard sound anywhere near as good with a 5150 is the Genz Benz G-Flex.
But the 5150 cabinet by far kills it......

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
5150 Sheffield cabinet..

[/ QUOTE ]

Plus 1.

I have used Marshall 75s and 30, MESA 90s and 30s, Ampegs 75s, and other cabs, and NOTHING sounds as good with a 5150 than the matching cab. NOTHING.

With that cab, you can get more usable distortion and more usable resonance without farting out.

I definitely wouldn't use a tube screamer with one. Maybe the BBE 422a tho. Sounds good, but that isnt exactly needed for what the swedes are doing soundwise.

A lot of the "sound" is in their from the studio. See the bands live and you'll prolly find you are doing just fine attaining their sound.

[/ QUOTE ]

[DSS3]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

Everyone claims that the 5150 cab is the be all end all cabinet to pair with the head... I call bullshit. I also say it's BULLSHIT that it sounds better with a BBE in the loop. All the BBE does is what a tubescreamer will do, only more processed sounding.


That said, is this swedish enough for you?

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/song...songID=3321875


Technially, the band who wrote the song is Dutch, and I'm an American... but whatever LOL.

[sworn_enemy]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

I've tried 3 cabs with a 5150II...Mesa w/v30's, Marshall 1960a w/gt75's, and Peavey 6505. In my opinion I'd rank them in that exact order...Mesa, Marshall, and then the Peavey last. I think a mix of v30's and gt75's in the Mesa cab would kick total ass though.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

Couldn't say it nicer I guess than we are all full of Bullshit? Why be a tool? Why not talk to people respectfully like they have some semblance of taste and or maybe even knowledge. You lose a lot of credibility being like that.

Well, your little clip sounds good to me, but not exactly like the "typical" misc Swedish "sound" of the "In Flames" etc... If I heard it somewhere, I would not say "swedish" really. Sounds more like Kataklysm (canadian) actually.

But, again, still good sounding.

I've played them a lot, and the 5150 cabs definitely let you use more distortion and more resonance with "that" amp for some reason. I think that makes a nice improvement over Marshall cabs (which I used a LOT) etc...

And if you feel the BBE (I'm really NOT a big BBE fan BTW) does what a tubescreamer does, you're pretty off base. Yet I wouldn't say you are full of Bullshit. Aurally misguided maybe. But, whatever you like to hear is what you like to hear.

But yes, unless you use the 422, it does give it more of a processed sound. The later units are definitely WAY more processed sounding. 422 is the best of them guitarwise.

[DSS3]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

You know CM, you're right. I did come off really really toolish... I apologize. I've been going through some rough spots lately, and shouldn't have taken it out in this thread. I'd amend my post accordingly, but it's too late [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Consider this an official apology!

I just updated the clip with bass and improved guitar tone, and I know what you mean by 'Kataklysm' tone. I'm contemplating a swap to a JSX soon, though.

[aldog1330]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

I've seen some pics of Peter Wichers pedal board (supposedly anyways, who ever knows for sure) and it did have a tubescreamer of sorts on it.

I'm also not a fan of the 422a. I bought one and found it made my tone seem way too hi fi and trebly, even with the definition turned way back. I eventually decided to sell off my rack gear and stick with a few pedals for the couple of effects I do need. I do like the Maxon OD808 for boosting the 5150's - they seem to do a good job of not robbing the bottom end from the tone.

[Inearthed]

Re: the 5150 and *that* swedish metal tone...

I could nail the Swedish sound dead perfect with the 5150 and my Marshall 1960A cab, no BBE in the mix either.

What tuning are you playing in out of curiousity? What are your full settings?

The BBE units seem to alter the sound that you get out of the 5150 quite a bit. Most notably I finally heard this phantom "flub" that Bill and Cleveland Metal (Sorry I can't remember your real name), and that was with a Mesa V30 cab. The BBE seemed, to me, make the resonance much more responsive. If you like playing with a lot of low end, then the BBE in the loop is a great way to obtain that.

I'm not picking on you and Bill, Cleve, but the "swedish metal" sound out of the 5150 that I've heard live never involves a 5150 cab nor does it involve a BBE (because as well all know, studio recordings don't count because even the worst sounding amp can be tweaked to sound pretty nice on a record - Marshall 15 watt practice amp on Heartwork, for example!)