Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

[Inazone]

Finally had a chance to bring my Peavey VTM-60 head to band practice and crank it up. Since it is a single channel amp and I need cleans and distortion from a single rig, I dialed in a suitable clean on the VTM and ran my usual ART Xtreme distortion pedal through it. After some major EQ adjustments, I was able to get a GREAT tone out, but I found that I had to boost the mids and lows on the head as much as possible, while backing off the treble even more than usual. The Xtreme is fairly bright, but I was surprised at the difference between amp distortion and amp clean/pedal distortion, considering that the Peavey's own distortion is pretty chunky and balanced.

The only thing I was doing differently (again, because this is a single-channel head) was backing the head's pre gain WAY down. Since the EQ is part of the preamp, would dialing back the pre gain reduce the sensitivity of the head's EQ in the process? I've established that there's nothing wrong with the amp, so that's the only conclusion I can come up with.

(In case I sound like a total newb here, this is the first "pro" amp that gave me a good distorted tone on its own AND using my usual pedal setup. I haven't used amp distortion in the past 5-6 years.)

[jgcable]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

I had a rehearsal last week and all I brought was a modded MT2 Metal Zone. I plugged it into a Peavey Ultra head with a Peavey 4 x 12 cab. I did it because the channel switching wasn't working on the Peavey. How did the rig sound? Killer.
Total chunk and agressive tight tone. It sounded like a Metal Zone which I have always thought is a great metal pedal. Amp distortion is cool but so is pedal distortion through the clean channel.
I used to run a Korg 411FX through the clean channel of a Randall RG100ES and it sounded great too.

[Fragle]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

i've yet to hear a pedal sound good, esp. in a live context.
a blackmetal band i toured with used the boss mt2 into a marshall dsl clean channel...jeez [img]/images/graemlins/help.gif[/img]
but then again, after all black metal is supposed to sound crappy [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (btw this was the same band that later used a powerball on channel 4 open with the mids completely scooped out...the other guitar player's flextone hd totally slayed him [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

[Endrik]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

I got a pretty badass tone with Metal Zone and old master-volume Plexi once, it was a live performance.

[hippietim]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

My distortion pedal sounds great into a clean amp. I use a Soldano Supercharger GTO - it kicks much ass.

[Inazone]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

The issue isn't whether or not one setup sounds better than the other. I've been gigging and recording with the ART pedal (which is identical to their rackmount DST-4 preamp), running into amps' clean channels for many years. The difference is that the head's EQ seems much less effective/sensitive/whatever when turning the pre gain down to get a clean tone...which I use in conjunction with the ART.

To put it simply, when using the head's distortion, I need to back off the mids and lows and boost the highs a little. When using the distortion pedal with the head running clean, I need to boost the head's lows and mids, and cut the highs, just to get relatively minor adjustments in tone.

I'm just saying that it seems odd that the "sweep" of the head's EQ controls seems much more limited with a pedal than without, when I've run pedals into other amps for years. Maybe I'm crazy.

[metallicarocks]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

What are the tone settings on the distortion box? That's a helluva problem that I'm having; I can't seem to balance the EQ on the amp and the pedal. It's a total fucking nightmare for me. If I try to dick with the pedal's EQ, I seem to get the signal too muddy. Then I go over to the amp's eq and try to take out some of the shit (usually backing off on the lows) then it seems really measly and thin. So I go back to the pedal and back off on the gain with a resulting clock-radio sounding rig. Right now I'm trying to see if I can get a good sound out of my DF-7 and my spider II, just to see if I can get a better distortion than what's already on the amp. So far, worse than minimal success.

Anyone else have that problem?

[slevy007]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

Just throwing my opinion out there... I tend only to like amps if they sound great without use a pedal; it has to give me the sound I am looking for, before any addons.
When it comes to pedals, you can get a pretty good boosted tone. But I find that is makes a flatter tone... not as dynamic feeling. Still great tone.. but it seems like something is missing, just a bit. I am actually wanting to try punching the front end of an amp(an alreadt good amp) with a pedal with a preamp tube in there(like the mesa one, or something like that). I wonder if that flattness would be gone.

I don't know. MAybe I'm nuts [img]/images/graemlins/what.gif[/img]
slevy007

[jgcable]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

Pro's have been using stomp box distortion for many years and will continue to do so. It really doesn't matter how you arrive at your guitar tone as long as it blows your skirt up. Pedals, amp distortion, both.. its all good if it sounds good to the player.

[Inazone]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

[ QUOTE ]
What are the tone settings on the distortion box?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the pedal EQ settings at or around the following when using this head:

Gain - 2 o'clock
Bass - 3 o'clock
Midrange - 1 o'clock (sometime higher)
Mid Freq (sweep) - varies, currently around 12 o'clock
Treble - 12 o'clock

This has usually worked fine using other single-channel amps that don't have any distortion to begin with, which I then EQ at 12 o'clock across the board. I guess I just need to expect different results from different amps, even when just using the clean channel in conjunction with a distortion pedal.

In no way am I complaining about the tone I'm getting. The EQ settings are just drastically different from other amps (clean) in the same scenario, and the amp controls don't seem to have a very wide range.

[eaeolian]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

When I had the previous version of that amp (the Butcher - I wish mine hadn't been stolen!), I set it up clean and used a Boss DS-1 and GE-7 for the distorted tone. It actually worked pretty well, and I got quite a good tone out of it.

[Hamner1]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

Man I loved my VTM 60 back in the day. 1st all tube amp head I owned.
Have you taken the cover off the front and mess w/ the switches?
I would say the difference is that the pedal you are using is quite bright, but not sure why eq on amp would be less "sensitive".

[Twisteramps]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

I had a VTM120 back in the day, bought a VTM60 to mod a few months ago, still playing with it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

pete

[ChrisRocksUSA]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

I prefer to use the amp's gain

dunno why, I just don't like using distortion that changes my tone. I enjoy just using the amp's gain and letting it voice it's on natural tone [img]/images/graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

it's just sexay that way

[slevy007]

Re: Head distortion vs. pedal thru clean channel?

I guess. That's just seems to be how I get to the tone that"blows my skirt up" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

slevy007