DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

[Endrik]

I've thought about getting a Diezel somewhere in spring/summer hopefully, but I'm not sure wich one is better for me, VH4 or Herbert. I've played only with the VH4. I like VH4 options more (4 channels etc.) but Herbert isn't bad either. I've heard that Herbert's rhythm tone is a little bit looser than VH4 but that's fine because I don't want an ultra tight rhythm tone, some looseness is good IMO.

Ok, these following points are important, so if anyone can answer to them it would be very helpful:

*Clean sound - wich one has a better clean, wich one is more Fenderish?
*low-gain/mild overdrive tone - I need some light drive for more pop-ish stuff and a smooth lead tone for Gilmourish solos. Wich one is better for that?
*lead tone - wich one screams more? has more sustain? sounds more like Boogie Mark? I'm lookin' for more lower-mids based lead tone ala John Sykes, Petrucci, Santana etc. and it should be good for jazzy/fusion leads to. Wich one is more tighter, smooter and defined?
*Hi Gain rhythm tone - wich one sustains better on low notes? sounds better for big chords? sounds more like MB Dual Rectifier? has more crunch?

[img]/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img]

[ChrisRocksUSA]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

the herbert has the most beautiful and pristine clean tones I have ever heard from any amp.

I love the crunch channel too, and that last metal channel is nuts.

I would take the herbert

[Endrik]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

ahh one thing I forgot.

wich one is better for American Nu Metal modern hi gain tone ala Mudvayne, Godsmack, Disturbed etc.

[ChrisRocksUSA]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

[ QUOTE ]
ahh one thing I forgot.

wich one is better for American Nu Metal modern hi gain tone ala Mudvayne, Godsmack, Disturbed etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm

good question, I'm not sure.

I play that classic metal type stuff (pantera, metallica, sepultura etc.)

for that stuff the amp was absolutely blistering. It sounds amazing. If it does that stuff that well I'm sure it will play that nu-metal stuff.

Can't tell you for sure, especially since I have no experience with the Vh4

[sparky]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

I played a VH-4 a while ago, so I am going off memory, and just recently played the Herbert. Both have excellent clean sounds. The clean on the Herbert actually blew me away when I played it. The Herbert over all has a looser more organic distortion sound, whereas the VH-4 I found to be tighter / more hi-fi sounding. The one main area I found the Herbert to excel over the VH-4 is in lower gain crunch sounds. While I remember liking the VH-4 when I played it, I loved the Herbert. Even though the Herbert only has 3 channels, the assignable mid-cut allows you to get six sounds. For example, channel 2 can be set up for a 80's hotrodded "marshall" sound but when you activate the mid cut you can suddenly have a scooped metal sound. They are both excellent amps, I just prefer the Herbert.

[axeman81]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

for nu-metal, I'd say get a Mesa DR or TR....

[Joe_Steeler]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

Guys there is no more looking around, one long word: Powerball.

After owning, playing, tweaking, testing, oogling, stomping and fooling with every tube based high gain amp known to man (except a Framus Cobra) I landed a PB. Brutal.

[Endrik]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

I absolutely HATED the Powerball, I didn't liked the clean, it sucked hard for leads and the rhythm tone was sterile and booring to my ears. It was complete opposite of my loved Mesa Boogie hi-gain tone. Then I tried another one, same thing. Savage was definetly better but also not my cup of tea.

Rune: I'm getting the Mesa DR too but I want to have many amps you know [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] And I don't really play Nu-Metal that much (well sometimes for fun) but that's the tone I'm headin' for. I play rock'n'roll with modern sound.

[siggy14]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

[ QUOTE ]
I absolutely HATED the Powerball, I didn't liked the clean, it sucked hard for leads and the rhythm tone was sterile and booring to my ears. It was complete opposite of my loved Mesa Boogie hi-gain tone. Then I tried another one, same thing. Savage was definetly better but also not my cup of tea.

Rune: I'm getting the Mesa DR too but I want to have many amps you know [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] And I don't really play Nu-Metal that much (well sometimes for fun) but that's the tone I'm headin' for. I play rock'n'roll with modern sound.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the new metal catagory you are talking the mesa's are defintly the amp. But i also know Wes From Limp Biskit using the VH4 and he gets a mean tone with it, and that is about as new metal as you can get.

[Wizard of Ozz]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

I've played both, but own/prefer the Herbert. Herbie is more of a modern metal channel switcher with a phenominal clean channel, whereas the VH4 is more of a classic rock to hard rock amp.

The VH4 has more medium gain & inbetween tones, whereas the Herbert just really excells at high gain tones from the '80s to the modern heavy stuff, and beyond.

From your description it looks like your into high gain tones, and like a more saturated/full bodied tone, which is closer to the Herbert.

Get a Herbert, you won't be sorry.

[Wizard of Ozz]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

[ QUOTE ]
Guys there is no more looking around, one long word: Powerball.

After owning, playing, tweaking, testing, oogling, stomping and fooling with every tube based high gain amp known to man (except a Framus Cobra) I landed a PB. Brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing an Engl Powerball to any Diezel is a joke.

The Powerball is one of the worst designed and constructed tubes amps for the price I've seen. It's basically no better, or dare I even say worse, than a Marshall DSL/TSL. The Powerball has the PCBs (of which there are 7) mounted in the chasis upside down so if anything ever goes wrong you need to pull out the entire board. The PCBs are mounted to the chassis with cheap/flimsy plastic posts, not solid metal posts like Diezel, Soldano, etc. use. Furthermore, Engl uses dabs of silicone eveywhere to hold leads in place. Filter caps are literally glued to the PCB instead of being secured with zip ties etc. All the pots/jacks are directly mounted to numerous thin PCBs... so if you bang a pot/jack, you get a cracked board. Also, the Powerball has more ribbon cables running around inside than most PCs I've seen. Finally, the Powerball is a 2 channel amp, which sounds more to me like a solid state Peavey, than a tube amp. Way too harsh, and thin.

[Joe_Steeler]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

If you compare then on price $3400 for $1495 and your take on construction which does not seem to be a problem for many touring artists including lots and lots people using DSL and TSL Marshalls. Who gives a flying squirrel's ass how they are put together as long as they sound great (to my ears) and hold up.

Hey opinions and tastes are like a-holes, everyone has got one.
I've spent yeras looking at amps selling buying, testing and trying. The PB rules and so does my Road King and Rivera KHR.
The rest is talk.

[siggy14]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

[ QUOTE ]
If you compare then on price $3400 for $1495 and your take on construction which does not seem to be a problem for many touring artists including lots and lots people using DSL and TSL Marshalls. Who gives a flying squirrel's ass how they are put together as long as they sound great (to my ears) and hold up.

Hey opinions and tastes are like a-holes, everyone has got one.
I've spent yeras looking at amps selling buying, testing and trying. The PB rules and so does my Road King and Rivera KHR.
The rest is talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is the amount of money you will spend in repairing the powerball. It will also die alot quicker in the long run and you will probaly have to buy 3 or 4 powerballs by the time a diezel dies. I have owned a few DSL's and TSL's and they all eventually suffer from heat issues due to crappy construction.

As to touring musicians, i dont see many playing the TSL's and DSL's at all, most are playing Mesa's. What makes Mesa so popuplar is because they are cheaply priced and built like a tank and last a long time.

I have never heard a powerball, but i probaly would not like it by how people talk about it, but to each there own, if you have found your sound with it more power to you.

[Wizard of Ozz]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

[ QUOTE ]
Who gives a flying squirrel's ass how they are put together as long as they sound great

[/ QUOTE ]

You will... when you need to have it fixed smart guy. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

It might sound like the best amp in the world... but if it breaks down at a gig what good is it? Obviously you've never seen the inside of your mighty Powerball. The overall construction leaves much to be desired. But hey, why care about things like design, construction, and craftsmanship... as long as they sound good right?
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: DIEZEL thread: VH4 vs. Herbert

Wow, I really wanted a powerball. Now, I'm bummed...

I had no idea they were badly constructed. Sigh....