mesa stiletto duece ver 1

[akoch]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

"akoch, I have no problem dialing the JCM tone with Boogies"
Endrick, could you possibly share setttings? I admit I am puzzled how you managed, I can't. I get ENTIRELY different harmonic structure and repsonse. My gear is Mark VI, V30 Mesa cab.

[Outlander]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

Sam I asked these same questions in the non jackson section.Whichever post you see first will work.Have you tried it with G-benz yet? if so what did you think? and what is the differance between the deuce and the trident other than watts ?

oops sorry guys the dupe post is in this category as well.Oh well it's too early [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Endrik]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

[ QUOTE ]
"akoch, I have no problem dialing the JCM tone with Boogies"
Endrick, could you possibly share setttings? I admit I am puzzled how you managed, I can't. I get ENTIRELY different harmonic structure and repsonse. My gear is Mark VI, V30 Mesa cab.

[/ QUOTE ]

first of all, do you want to turn your Boogie into a Marshall JCM or you want to use Boogie tones AND a JCM tone?

[akoch]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

Either way, how do I get JCM800 cound out of my MarkIV?

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

get a marshall cab.

[akoch]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

"get a marshall cab"
LOL. I got one, sitting next to the MarkIV. What's next?

[Endrik]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

first, get a JCM to the same room where your MarkIV is so you can A/B them.

ok, one thing is you can change two 6L6s for two EL34s, that should pretty much guarantee you get the Marshall tone. Consult with some pro/engineer first if you do that. But you will lose some gain and "Boogie characther".

Boogie's have strong lower midrange, wich makes them to sound fat and smooth. The classic Marshall tone is based one the higer midrange. Try to bring the hi mids up and turn the low mids town with your graphic EQ. Also you can use some good EQ pedals or rackmount EQ units.
I would do the "smiling face" setting with the Boogie's 5 band EQ, that means scooping the mids a little bit and rising the hi's and low's. But keep the hi midrange dominant to the low midrange. That means, scoop the low mids more than hi mids. And don't worry about that you would lose the midrange crunch. You wont, because Mark series Boogies have probably the most mids compared to the other amps.

Now I would use the rhythm 2 or the lead channel. Start tweaking with all the 3 knobs (lo, mid, hi) in the middle position (12 o'clock) and presence tunred to about 9 O'clock. I would put the gain to about 11-12 o'clock at first.
I would lower the the lows more because Boogie have tones of more lows than Marshall. Rise the hi's a little bit. Listen to what it does. Start to play with the mid and the presence knob gently. Do everything carefully because all the Boogie's controlls are interactive.

Now you have all these fat and bright and lead voicing and whatever switches. Hmm, I really can't tell shit about them because I've experienced mostly with older Marks wich didn't have bazillion different knobs and shit. Just try different variations.

You can also use some good overdrive pedals to make your tone more "juicy".

There isn't a one particular setting that will give you THE marshall tone.

The key is you have to make the hi mids dominant instead of the lower mids and everything else comes after that.

[jgcable]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

[ QUOTE ]
first, get a JCM to the same room where your MarkIV is so you can A/B them.

ok, one thing is you can change two 6L6s for two EL34s, that should pretty much guarantee you get the Marshall tone. Consult with some pro/engineer first if you do that. But you will lose some gain and "Boogie characther".

Boogie's have strong lower midrange, wich makes them to sound fat and smooth. The classic Marshall tone is based one the higer midrange. Try to bring the hi mids up and turn the low mids town with your graphic EQ. Also you can use some good EQ pedals or rackmount EQ units.
I would do the "smiling face" setting with the Boogie's 5 band EQ, that means scooping the mids a little bit and rising the hi's and low's. But keep the hi midrange dominant to the low midrange. That means, scoop the low mids more than hi mids. And don't worry about that you would lose the midrange crunch. You wont, because Mark series Boogies have probably the most mids compared to the other amps.

Now I would use the rhythm 2 or the lead channel. Start tweaking with all the 3 knobs (lo, mid, hi) in the middle position (12 o'clock) and presence tunred to about 9 O'clock. I would put the gain to about 11-12 o'clock at first.
I would lower the the lows more because Boogie have tones of more lows than Marshall. Rise the hi's a little bit. Listen to what it does. Start to play with the mid and the presence knob gently. Do everything carefully because all the Boogie's controlls are interactive.

Now you have all these fat and bright and lead voicing and whatever switches. Hmm, I really can't tell shit about them because I've experienced mostly with older Marks wich didn't have bazillion different knobs and shit. Just try different variations.

You can also use some good overdrive pedals to make your tone more "juicy".

There isn't a one particular setting that will give you THE marshall tone.

The key is you have to make the hi mids dominant instead of the lower mids and everything else comes after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you know your shit for sure. I agree 100%. [img]/images/graemlins/headbang.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/notworthy.gif[/img]

[akoch]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

Thank you Endrik, I will try this tonight and get back to here with the results.
I have a Marshall amp right next to the Mark, so A/B'ing will be easy. Two external tubes in the Mark are already EL34s.

[akoch]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

Here is the interesting (a bit refreshing to myself) results:
I can get voicing of the amp (frequency response) that approximates the JCM a bit. You will not really confuse two amps, but the voicing approximation on Mark can be such that it makes you think of a JCM.

Now, let's move further: I can not get the responce, harmonic structure and feel of the JCM800 amp out of Mark. Let me expand on this, read on.

So for starters, it took me a bit of time to understand where Endrik is coming from. After a few hours of tweeking, I kind of figured what I think Endrik wanted me to try. If you dial in the high-gain sound on the Mark and the JCMs, I mean real high gain (on the JCM with a help of a pedal, like a tubescreamer TS808 in my disposal) you can get them sound somewhat similar as far as the voicing goes. With a fair bit of EQ tweeking they start to sound a bit alike. And the more gain you dial in, the more alike they become. This is I think where Endrik was able to get similar sounds out of the Mark.
This starts to go different directions once you roll off the gain, and go back to the low-mid gain mode the JCM is usually known for (ACDC alike). The voicing becomes increasingly different (and changing, elusive depending on the touch), with me unable to approximate the two amps together. They just respond differently once you push them this way. The dynamics is principally different, harmonic content could not be more dissimilar. And the less gain you go, the more pronounced the effect is. What kills the entire idea is the difference in response both amps do as the sound fades off (playing with dynamics).
Mesa did very well in the high-gain mode, great fluid lead (as it often does). The JCM is different but great pushed for leads, but ENTIRELY different beast for the rithm work, especially for complex chording work etc. I don't believe anyone would confuse one over another, just so different.
So there are my 2cents. Test equipment: MarkIV vs TSL amber channel, both go into stereo C75s marshall cab, side-by-side.

[Endrik]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

hmmm, as I said I'm not really experinced with Mark IVs but me and my firiend did an A/B with his old Marshall Plexi and with his two Boogies, Mark IIB and Mark III blue stripe. We nailed AC/DC's Back In Black tone to the T. With Rectos it's the same thing as you described, you can get the hi gain JCM tone. But there is still a difference because Recto is by far more powerful and "in your face".

btw. I've always loved Boogies because they don't sound like Marshall (except if you are intentionally gonna tweak them to sound like one). I've always loved Fenders more than Marshalls and having a Fender on hyper steroids - a Mesa Boogie - I'm in heaven.

[akoch]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

well, I like both, for different applications. High gain is great on both amps, that's why I keep both. But if I was to keep only one, I'd keep my VHT 50CL. And I admit it is slighly more on the Marshall side of sound than Boogie. Soldano was another amp that did what Mesa seems to be doing for you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Fragle]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

"The JCM is different but great pushed for leads, but ENTIRELY different beast for the rithm work, especially for complex chording work etc."

just one question....which amp had more clarity to offer when playing those complex chords? i assume the marshall, as mesas (at least the rectos) tend to lack clarity when playing intervals other than a perfect 5th, but i don't have any experience with the mark series that's why i'm asking....my band (and especially the stuff i write) uses a lot of these complex chords to get a halfway unique sound, and therefore note seperation is very important for me.

[Endrik]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

[ QUOTE ]
as mesas (at least the rectos) tend to lack clarity when playing intervals other than a perfect 5th

[/ QUOTE ]

funny, I've never had that problem

[sambencuda]

Re: mesa stiletto duece ver 1

??? I never had this problem with my single recto.