I've had it with modellers

[Thor Von Clemson]

Well... just my XTL. It is great for fx and have a built in wah/volume, noisegate, and all the other goodies I will ever need but man does it blow for a metal preamp. Even with the metal pack installed, I would rather spend my time on one good tube amp than messing around with some average modeled amps on the xtl. They just do not sound good to me, and once you get a good sound for low volumes, you have to turn around and write a completely new patch for high volumes. For bozo's like me, this gets time consuming and frustrating.

I have come to the conclusion that I would rather have one great amp than 15 decent modeled amps..I can still use it for fx, but I am in need of a new amp.

So my question is, where do I start? I am on somewhat of a budget but I need something that is going to work well for high gain metal with a decent clean sound. A head and a 4x12 would be preferable. Someone suggested the Carvin V3 half stack, and while I recall one of our members having a bad experience with them, they seem to be highly regarded over at the carvin forum. For about $1300, that seems like a good price on a halfstack.

Any suggestions?

[horns666]

oh boy...I'm staying outta this one..

well, you know what I would say already...let the people say!!

[Dreamland_Rebel]

did you try the new line 6 update to firmware version 3.01. huge difference.

as for a good cheap tube head. a used laney, carvin, or peavey will do ya fine.

[Thor Von Clemson]

dreamland... what is this huge difference you speak of?

*Edit.. Does anyone have any experience with the ENGL ES530 preamp? It is only like 479 dollars, so I am assuming just because it says ENGL on it does not mean I should expect a whole lot.

Otherwise, I am all ears as far as a good high gain metal preamp goes.

[jgcable]

Its your ears that matter. Not ours. I dig my Vetta but I also dig my Soldano. I would stay away from the V3 until they sort it COMPLETLY out.
Look at Boogie. The Stiletto, the Triple Rectifier, Soldano SLO, HR50, Avenger, Peavey JSX, Triple X, 5150 etc... there are a ton of options out there. Modeling isn't for everybody. Thats for damn sure.

[chrisolson]

FWIW - I've always been VERY happy with the Flextone amps. Never had a problem getting good sound/tone from it. I found a couple models I really like, and I just keep working with those. I use primarily the Marshall/Soldano models, and have them dialed in pretty well. I don't use all the models, but who does? I still use amp models that fall in line with the music I play, and the Vox & Fender models don't make it, so they don't get used. Stick with it. You'll come up with something.

[Thor Von Clemson]

I guess the problem with modellers, and I hate to admit it, is that I have absolutely no clue how to use them. The XTL has so many different functions and just when you think you have it figured out, something else comes up. Maybe I should spend some time reading through the manual for the XTL to gain a better understanding of what I can do with it.

I had a flextone II HD amp once and it sounded great actually. Problem is I am not the one who dialed in the tone. The other guy in my band used one and he knew more about the amp than I did.

*Another edit.. after playing with it for a while, I discovered some pretty cool tones using the treadplate settings, but man is it bass heavy and fizzy. I have not had a chance to play it at high volumes yet...
Anyways, the tones were actually pretty cool.. I wonder, is that really what mesa's are capable of? I can only imagine what the real thing sounds like..

Anyone?

[khabibissell]

I think you'll have more success with the modeling combos or heads rather than the XTL. Using the modeler itself with another power section from a head/poweramp and seperate cabinet does introduce alot of variables that can make tweaking the thing a nightmare. If you are deadset on using the XTL as the heart of your rig, you would probably have the most success using a PA style poweramp and a full range PA cabinet.

[shredhed]

There's a thread around here somewhere I read where modeling has the problem of everything about your sound changing when your volume changes.

I agree, it's frustrating. I have a GT6 Boss processor and it's the same prob. I'd rather play my guitar than spend half my time messing with settings.

So I got a Peavey Ultra 3 channel amp. All tube. It has great sounding clean. the crunch (channel 2) is ok, and the ultra sounds pretty good too. Although I do tweek it with an EQ. I also us a Digitech Hot Head pedal in front with some of my guitars. I run it at a low gain level just for some Marshallish color.

I now, like you, use my processor for Volume pedal, Wah, delay, Chorus, Noise suppression....... I like to keep things simple and just play. It's tube amps for me from now on.

[Inazone]

Maybe I missed it, but what are you using for a power amp currently? A good combo or half stack would be the simple solution. The Roseville GC had a Laney tube head and several 4x12 cabs in the used section last time I was in there, and you could try DC Music for Peavey and Marshall stuff. I tried a XXX that I liked, but I'm not in any hurry to ditch my ART preamps so I stick with what I have.

[jgcable]

I think you'll have more success with the modeling combos or heads rather than the XTL. Using the modeler itself with another power section from a head/poweramp and seperate cabinet does introduce alot of variables that can make tweaking the thing a nightmare. If you are deadset on using the XTL as the heart of your rig, you would probably have the most success using a PA style poweramp and a full range PA cabinet.

+1

[hgsmith]

So my question is, where do I start? I am on somewhat of a budget but I need something that is going to work well for high gain metal with a decent clean sound. A head and a 4x12 would be preferable. Someone suggested the Carvin V3 half stack, and while I recall one of our members having a bad experience with them, they seem to be highly regarded over at the carvin forum. For about $1300, that seems like a good price on a halfstack.

Any suggestions?

Welcome to the darkside goldmoon I walk a little different after my little confession. I know I’ll get the “buckshot” in the ass for this one but here goes.....I have the same complaints too, sooooo you can go through “update this and that to get this” or buy a solid tube amp. I went the Mesa single recto route, a pimped out purple suede 1x12 combo. Single recto head w/4x12, you’ll have a nice foundation amp to add too. It’s simple and it sounds great, if I want the crazy effects I guess I’ll go with the g-major in the loop. Anyway, buy what makes you feel warm, fuzzy and happy.
Harrison

[beachjammer]

Hey there,
I had the Line 6 POD XTL once. I kept it for a few months and sold it. Although it was a good piece of gear there were just so many variables and parameters to set that it got way too mind boggling for me and I've been an avid Line 6 user for years. IMO the best stuff they made were the Flextone 2 series because they were so easy to adjust and they sounded awesome. My problem with them and all modelers are that they sound good but are only temporary. All my Line 6 stuff eventually started giving me trouble and it was so hard to have them worked on because all the components on the inside are mainly SMT stuff. I just went through the same problem that you're now facing and I purchased a Mesa Rectoverb combo with matching ext cab and I'm VERY happy with it. I'm still working out the effects situation with it but the tone is there by just plugging in a guitar and chord. I'm really enjoying having a "real" guitar rig right now and something that simulates one. There's lots of different choices at all price ranges out there for tube amps right now. Plus some very good solid state stuff as well. I was very impressed with the new stuff that Hughes and Ketner has come out with. Just a few ideas for you. My personal preference is Mesa. Just try them all out and go for it

[jgcable]

Welcome to the darkside goldmoon I walk a little different after my little confession. I know I’ll get the “buckshot” in the ass for this one but here goes.....I have the same complaints too, sooooo you can go through “update this and that to get this” or buy a solid tube amp. I went the Mesa single recto route, a pimped out purple suede 1x12 combo. Single recto head w/4x12, you’ll have a nice foundation amp to add too. It’s simple and it sounds great, if I want the crazy effects I guess I’ll go with the g-major in the loop. Anyway, buy what makes you feel warm, fuzzy and happy.
Harrison

I changed my tune a little too regarding modeling or tube amps. Basically my feelings are this:
If you are not a tweaker and you can live with the shit factory presets that come on a modeler you will be fine.
If you are not a tweaker and you can't live with the shit factory presets you should stay away from a modeling amp. There are just too many possible reasons your tone sounds like canned ass.
Compared to a modeler... a Mesa is a plug and play amp.
If you don't mind the fairly steep learning curve when using a modeling amp and YOU HAVE A GOOD ONE!!!, there is literally no amp tone you can't recreate.
Basically.. I would say that modeling amps are great for beginners and players willing to put the time in.
Tube amps are great for everybody except beginners and at home players who have to play at extremely low volume levels.
BTW.. a pimped out purple Single Recto combo sounds SWEET.

[Thor Von Clemson]

I will see what it sounds like through a good tube preamp and a vetta cab. I figure if those two variables can not help me get the sound I want then nothing can and I will have to start over.

I have a buddy coming over in a few weeks who is going to help me tweak the heck out of it.