So, how would you upgrade this modeling setup??

[MBreinin]

I have both a Vox Tonelab and Behringer V-Amp Pro. Right now I use them with headphones and through my old vintage 1996 Peavey Studio Pro 112, which actually sounds very good with them.

However, I am looking to upgrade them for a better non-headphone sound.

The three options I am considering:

1. Atomic Reactor. All tube, closed back, docking station convenience. However, one speaker, and thw 2x12 version is too pricey;

2. Behringer 4x12 modeling cabinet and a Crate Powerblock;

3. Behringer 4x12 modeling cabinet and an older tube poweramp that I can find cheaply, like maybe a Peavey 50/50 or the such.

I would like to thicken my tone, so I am inclined to go for a 4x12, but it really is overkill for the living room...I don't play loudly..but I want a fatter tone....and I want to be able to use the speakercab models as well as the amp models.

I really don't want to invest much more than around $500 more on this setup. All of the above are swingable in that range of expenditure.

Opinions? Alternatives?

Mike

[jgcable]

Tube power amp is always a good idea. Regarding cabinets... go with either 2 1 x 12 cabs or 2 2 x 12 cabs and run your system in true stereo.
The other way you could do it is to get a tube guitar amp with an effects loop and just plug into the effects return.
I am selling a perfect rig to power your modeler and it sounds great at home.
Marshall 8004 power amp (80w, 40w per side SS)
Ross 31 band EQ (I really think this helps out a modeler providing you use it sparingly)
rack mount power strip
all housed in a nice 4 rms soft easy to carry road case.
Check the classifieds.

[MBreinin]

Tube power amp is always a good idea. Regarding cabinets... go with either 2 1 x 12 cabs or 2 2 x 12 cabs and run your system in true stereo.
The other way you could do it is to get a tube guitar amp with an effects loop and just plug into the effects return.
I am selling a perfect rig to power your modeler and it sounds great at home.
Marshall 8004 power amp (80w, 40w per side SS)
Ross 31 band EQ (I really think this helps out a modeler providing you use it sparingly)
rack mount power strip
all housed in a nice 4 rms soft easy to carry road case.
Check the classifieds.

Well, I want a speaker cabinet that is designed for modelers, and has "transparent" speakers..allowing you to use the cab models....that is why I was looking at the Behringer which is designed for the V-Ampire head and comes in stereo or mono versions.

If I were to go with a tube amp, I would just go with the Atomic Reactor, which is a tube slave amp that is designed just to be a transparent device for a modeler and to warm it up and thicken in with a tube power section and a closed back cabinet.

Who makes non-powered transparent speaker cabs designed for modelers in the 1x12 or 2x12 variation?

I know about the Tech21's but I am not confident that they will sound very good. I had a TM60, which is basically just a Tech21 Powerstation (or whatever they call it) with a built in Sansamp and I found bypassing the pre-amp of the amp and going into the loop with the Behringer sounded too weak and thin, I had to stereo it with the Peavey to get any balls....and I never ran the cab models as they trashed the tone. The Peavey actually sounded better than the Tech-21 with a modeler, and the Tech-21 is designed to be transparent. However, the two mixed together was a nice tone.....

Maybe I should just give up on these modelers.....

Mike


Mike

[Top Jimmy B]

Mike, I can only advise you to stay away from the powerblock. I have one that worked for a week and then died on me. When it was working the tone was marginal, at best. I have since spoken to three other guys, locally, who had the same problem with these piles.

Find yourself a tube poweramp and a 4x12 and run the Vox through that. I hear they are killer little machines. Just stay the hell away from the powerblock.

[jgcable]

Well, I want a speaker cabinet that is designed for modelers, and has "transparent" speakers..allowing you to use the cab models....that is why I was looking at the Behringer which is designed for the V-Ampire head and comes in stereo or mono versions.

If I were to go with a tube amp, I would just go with the Atomic Reactor, which is a tube slave amp that is designed just to be a transparent device for a modeler and to warm it up and thicken in with a tube power section and a closed back cabinet.

Who makes non-powered transparent speaker cabs designed for modelers in the 1x12 or 2x12 variation?

I know about the Tech21's but I am not confident that they will sound very good. I had a TM60, which is basically just a Tech21 Powerstation (or whatever they call it) with a built in Sansamp and I found bypassing the pre-amp of the amp and going into the loop with the Behringer sounded too weak and thin, I had to stereo it with the Peavey to get any balls....and I never ran the cab models as they trashed the tone. The Peavey actually sounded better than the Tech-21 with a modeler, and the Tech-21 is designed to be transparent. However, the two mixed together was a nice tone.....

Maybe I should just give up on these modelers.....

Mike


Mike

I don't buy that modeling speaker crap. I use Vin 30's, T75's, 90w Black Shadows and Altec Lansing 300w Whiteframes and they all sound good. I actually prefer the Vin 30's. Just get a decent power amp like a Carvin T100, TS100 or a Peavey 50/50 or 60/60 or a Mesa 20/20 and add some speakers. Run it in stereo and you will be Uber happy.
Its all how you tweak.

[MBreinin]

Mike, I can only advise you to stay away from the powerblock. I have one that worked for a week and then died on me. When it was working the tone was marginal, at best. I have since spoken to three other guys, locally, who had the same problem with these piles.

Find yourself a tube poweramp and a 4x12 and run the Vox through that. I hear they are killer little machines. Just stay the hell away from the powerblock.

Yeah, I am reading reviews on HarmonyCentral right now....most guys use them as actual amps, not poweramps for modelers...and a bunch of them have blown up.

I like the Vox alot...it does hundreds of things, and dozens of them it actually does well. However, running it through an open back 1x12 combo is just not cutting it right now...too many mids, which leads me to scooping the crap out of the EQ. I can get a very tasty Brownsound with the Plexi model and the built in treble booster...but I still can't dial out that fucking warmth sucking mid spike. I really want that Atomic Reactor 212, but it is like a grand...and hard to find.

If they only had a damn loop on the THD Univalve so I could run some reverb and echo...THAT is the ultimate modeler.

Really, I use maybe 4 tones:

1. Brown;
2. Full blown Recto or SLO100
3. Carlton style clean
4. Compressed funk clean.

That's it.

Mike

[MBreinin]

I don't buy that modeling speaker crap. I use Vin 30's, T75's, 90w Black Shadows and Altec Lansing 300w Whiteframes and they all sound good. I actually prefer the Vin 30's. Just get a decent power amp like a Carvin T100, TS100 or a Peavey 50/50 or 60/60 or a Mesa 20/20 and add some speakers. Run it in stereo and you will be Uber happy.
Its all how you tweak.

Well, what do you use with the Vetta?

Of all the speaker models, I would say I use the V30 model about 95% of the time. It always sounds best, very open and airy. The 75W models always sound too midrangy (to my ears, and they are supposed to be scooped) and like there is blanket on the cab.

Who should I look at, Avatar? They have some nice deals....

Basically I want first and foremost, Warm Brown Sound. So, V-30s, Greenbacks..or GH12s??

Mike

[jgcable]

For my Vetta I run 2 Randall cabinets. They are both 2 x 12 slant cabs.
1 is an open back with Altec Lansing 300w Whiteframes
1 is a closed back with Celestion V30's.
I like the combination of open and closed back cabs.

A suggestion for an inexpensive pretty darn decent 4 x 12 cab is the Behringer 4 x 12 that has the speakers pointing out at angles. That cab sounds pretty darn good and I believe it is already wired in stereo.
I like separate cabs because I spred them out. Also.. with the Vetta, I can route different amps to different cabs.

[Matt Crooks]

4 tones:

1. Brown;
2. Full blown Recto or SLO100
3. Carlton style clean
4. Compressed funk clean.

That's it.

Mike

RoadKing.

[markD]

RoadKing.

hahahaha i was thinking the same thing!!! or get a mark IV or an M series rivera, but the roadking would give all 4 without much else added to it.

i have never been happy with using modellers for anything other than direct recording or with headphones. i have never gotten a good "live" sound. using line 6 cabs with line 6 heads were okay, but if i used any other cabs it was less than spectacular. for the record i use EVM 12L speakers in almost every cab i have, except for a pair of thiele aligned 1x12s that have JBL speakers. all my cabs are high wattage and fairly nuetral as far as coloring the sound. my cabs make every amp i have sound tight and up front, except for with my modellers. i have not messed with the vetta, but i had the flextone HD 2, i still have a POD 2.0, j-station and v-amp. i have used them with tube and SS poweramps.

but if the truth be told, i do not have the depth of modelling experience that jgcable has. the are too much work when i can walk over to a selection of real amps and just plug in. the current stable gives me the options of a blackface fender tremolux, riveras, marshalls (3203 & 2204), or a mesa maverick.

[MBreinin]

RoadKing.

Yeah, that amp basically covers all of my needs..I just went and checked it out and yep, that amp would be a dream setup for me...right down to a friggin' built in Variac. Were they thinking of me when they invented this?

Let's see..we have a guy that loves Eddie's old tone more than anything in the world....however, every once in a while he digs bone crushing gain as well...hmm, I also heard this guy likes to funk out, digs SRV and has a hidden love for Larry Carlton...well, let's build him one amp that does all of that! He has been struggling with modelers now for a little while, so let's give him an all tube analog modeler with enough tubes to insure that his kids will never see a private University!!! :ROTF:

I don't know if I could fit it into my $500 upgrade budget though.

Goddamn you for bringing it up!

KHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

[jgcable]

The Roadking is an awesome amp. Truly an incredible feat of engineering by Mesa. Every channel sounds great, tons of features, loud as all hell. Expensive too. Probably worth every penny. Great foot controller too.
It sounds the absolute best when a Vetta HD isn't in the room.
For the tones you are looking for... VETTA.
I can go from Carlton, Eddy, SRV,Lynch,Rhoads,Page,Harrison,Satch,Vai and all the way back to Waters + I can have all the special effects that they used too. VETTA. I can even do all star jams!!!
I can dial up a perfect SRV tone and route it to my left cab. I can add some reverb and maybe a Univibe to it. I can dial up a perfect Lynch with some killer delay and route it to my right cab. I can play both tones at the same time. I can even blend them together and route them to both cabs and to the board but I would then have to choose what mic simulation to use. NO PROBLEM.. the Vetta has several fantastic mic simulations in the DI package.
VETTA...VETTA...VETTA na na nana na
DONE.

[6077dino]

I´d go with 2x12 cab(s) and a desent tube poweramp. One can´t go wrong with those.

[jwoods986]

JG, you've been raving about the Vetta all over the place lately, but you have the head. How is the combo? And what about the Flextone III as a cheaper alternative? I'm pretty much looking for the same as Mike - a good clean, an SRV/blues light distortion, 80s metal Marshall (EVH, Lynch), and high gain Recto/SLO. Heck, I think the Spider IIs cover all those for a lot less. Maybe I just need to hit the shops this weekend and try them all next to each other.

[MBreinin]

The Roadking is an awesome amp. Truly an incredible feat of engineering by Mesa. Every channel sounds great, tons of features, loud as all hell. Expensive too. Probably worth every penny. Great foot controller too.
It sounds the absolute best when a Vetta HD isn't in the room.
For the tones you are looking for... VETTA.
I can go from Carlton, Eddy, SRV,Lynch,Rhoads,Page,Harrison,Satch,Vai and all the way back to Waters + I can have all the special effects that they used too. VETTA. I can even do all star jams!!!
I can dial up a perfect SRV tone and route it to my left cab. I can add some reverb and maybe a Univibe to it. I can dial up a perfect Lynch with some killer delay and route it to my right cab. I can play both tones at the same time. I can even blend them together and route them to both cabs and to the board but I would then have to choose what mic simulation to use. NO PROBLEM.. the Vetta has several fantastic mic simulations in the DI package.
VETTA...VETTA...VETTA na na nana na
DONE.

Oh, Christ..and have to learn ANOTHER friggin' modeler..one even more complicated than all the others put together?

I am just a hobbyist and I play in the living at night and on the weekends...I really don't need all of that stuff that the Vetta does. To be honest, if thick Ed tone came out of the amp and much little else, I could live with it.....

I wish that Line6 had better sound samples on their site...they really kinda suck.

Mike