finally joining the tube family... 5150 content

[Inearthed]

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the band Aletheian, but I play music similar to them, extol, between the buried and me along with some dream theater and nevermore... Drop C and Drop A.

Cool. Heard of those bands... Main band I play in is Drop C as well. 5150 sounds great in dropped tunings, in my opinion.

I am basically just looking to get the best metal tones that a 5150 can do and any sort of useable clean tone with maybe a chorus or something. I am going to ditch my pod to get new tubes, and hopefully tuner and a noisegate if necessary. I am not sure how well the 5150 likes fx but I use a little delay and chorus and I would like to use some fx stomps if possible.

What I typically do is dial down the Green channel's gain to like 2 or 3, and let the post gain do the work, keeps it fairly clean without many issues. Throw in some Chorus or Reverb and your clean should be passable (especially for live stuff). As far as the metal tones... Watch the bass and treble and if you keep your gain at a reasonable level you shouldn't have any problems with feedback[/quote]

*edit- It dawned on me that I can use a GT-6 and the four cable method for fx as well as a tuner and a noisegate. It may require a little bit of tapdancing but that is ok. Plus I can still use the GT-6 for home direct recording, and quiet practice. Now I just need to sell the POD and save up for some new tubes...Does that sound like a good start on the golden tube road?

Sounds good to me.

First off, do the block letter 5150's have a shared eq? At first glance it appears that they do and if so, are there any trick to get around this? I am probably going to be using a GT-6 for cleans so I am thinking if I focus on the lead channel for metal tones and mess with the rhythm channel volumes and gains I should be ok.

Yeah, the EQ is shared on the 5150 (independent on the 5150II, along with the presence and resonance controls too).

The cool method that I've seen bands like Quo Vadis and Neuraxis use was to have the loop always activated and always set on the lead channel, then through the GT-6 you can use that to select the high gain sounds (your amp) or the GT-6's cleans.. I'm not exactly sure how this works (sorry) but I know there is a GT-6 forum that you could probably ask that question and they'll help you out.

[sworn_enemy]

Here's my input (most will disagree, though I think at least DSS3 and Fragle will agree with me).

People are huge on the 5150 + BBE 422 on this board. To me, when you use the BBE with this amp it will offer high clarity and give a bit more tightness to your tone but it also does a great job of adding this sort of processed type feel to your tone which I don't like at all. BBE can work somewhat well as a way to "remove the blanket" at low volumes, but when you start cranking the amp and dialing in some good settings it, to me, starts sounding like a heavily processed / digital modeler. I liken it to the ENGL Powerball as it'll be really beefy and heavy, but it won't be as raw or in your face as the 5150 straight up.

Easiest way to prove a point is look at the touring acts that use the 5150 and see how many of them use the BBE. Look at Andy Sneap, Fredrik Nordström, Adam D, and Devin T - how many of them use the BBE in their studio? None.

If you're looking for the raw sound / traditional feel of the 5150 then the BBE will not accomplish this. It is worth trying to see if you favor the tone, but I wouldn't drop everything and run out and pick up a BBE.

Boost wise, it is a personal preference. A lot of people like dialing back the gain and then boosting with their favorite stomp box (SD-1, Maxon OD808, others). Most of the boosting is done to tighten up the amp. All boils down (again) to personal preference. Boosts won't change your tone as much as the BBE.

What style of music are you playing? How old are the tubes? How's the amp sound right now?

Also Doug's tube suggestions sound good to me. 5150 does sound best with the 6L6's

You can add me to the list of people that agree with you.

[sworn_enemy]

What say you to this idea? I have no clue where to start but it seems like 6L6's in the powersection would be a good idea.

It's really your only choice. You won't be able to run anything else correctly without having your amp modded.

[DSS3]

Both of my 5150's have always liked High-gain graded JJ 12AX7's and JJ 6L6's best, second place goes to 9th Gen Chinese preamp tubes.

Inearthed is right - the BBE will only process your sound in a very undesireable way. I can't stand BBE's or EQ's - they're just bandaids. If you need this kinds of things to get your tone, you're playing the wrong amp. Want a more processed, scooped, tighter sounding 5150? Get a Power/Fireball and be done with it. Want a killer, raw, in your face, clear and defined, cutting, grinding gain tone? Grab a 5150 and an OD pedal to stick infront.

I will still stand by the fact that 5150's sound best when played with an OD infront and through a V30 loaded cabinet.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=187505&songID=4268575

That's my latest with my 5150 - OD808 in the front, V30 loaded Avatar 2x12 cabinet and a single 57 slightly off axis. I still haven't heard any of the guys who claim that the 5150 cab and BBE are the best for the 5150 head produce any clips, let alone clips of decent caliber. I'm not saying mine are amazing, but I'd say that one accurately represents the 5150, with a bit of high end fizz added (just the nature of micing the beast and me not filtering fizz low enough).



For the GT-6 thing we're talking about - basically you run guitar into GT, GT's fx loop send to the 5150 input, 5150's fx send to the GT's fx loop return, and the GT's output to the 5150's fx loop return. Leave the loop engaged, switched to lead channel, and then set patches up to either include the GT's fx loop or leave it out of the signal chain for distortion and clean, respectively.

[Thor Von Clemson]

I played my 5150 a little this weekend and here is what I discovered. I played it with my new SLS through a 2x12 with sheffields in it.

For a new stock head, the thing sounds pretty good. I hear the fizz that everyone talks about but I must say I am pretty impressed. It sounded better and better as I cranked it up which was pretty cool. I can imagine that once I get it re-tubed and stick an overdrive and noisegate in front, it will be a pretty tight amp.

The clean channel was ok. It was not pristine clear cleans or anything but it would work if I needed it to. I may stick a chorus pedal in the loop depending on how the 5150 responds to it.

Question- I see you can switch it from 4 to 8 to 16 ohms. Since I have a 2x12 with (I am assuming) two 4 ohm speakers, would I want to switch it to 8 ohms?

One thing I discovered is that my old cab can not handle it. It farts out a little at high volumes in drop C and a lot in drop A. I have maybe $500 to spend on a new 2x12 that works well with those afformentioned tunings and a 5150 head.

DSS3- how does your avatar work with the low tunings when you crank it up? I listened to the soundclips on your myspace page and I must say they are amazing!

[Bryan]

Congrats on the purchase. I absolutely love the 5150s. They're just a tad bit much for anything else other than rock. The louder they're turned up, the better they sound!

[IrfaanSE801]

Good to hear you like the way it's sounding. I love the 5150 tone, stock tubes and all. About the ohms, I think it is suppose to be set to 8ohms (mine is a Randall 2x12, and it says 8 when plugging in mono and 16 when plugging in stereo, so I assume it's the same. With the cab, if it's farting out it might be the speakers themselves (no clue, this one is a shot in the dark), but I bought my RM100 home yesterday and was running it into my MTS 2x12 Randall and in standard tuning I got some ungodly heavy bass that was tight as hell, but that I say is due to the Randall cab construction. I was running a Marshall 2x12 before and didn't like it nearly as much. I'm getting a 7 string on tuesday, so when I get it home I'll update ya on how it handles that low B (installing an X2N in it also, will also let ya know how that sounds)

[DSS3]

DSS3- how does your avatar work with the low tunings when you crank it up? I listened to the soundclips on your myspace page and I must say they are amazing!

It holds up just fine, but I'll be upgrading to a Mesa cab soon.

That said, those songs on my MySpace, aside from Nightshade (which was a shitty 5150 clip) are all PODxt.

I just did this tonight - loving the tone I'm getting from some new settings!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=187505&songID=4285460

[RacerX]

Cool!

[Thor Von Clemson]

what about the 5150 4x12 cabs? They are pretty cheap and I could get one for about the same price as a new 2x12.

Can anyone comment on their durability, reliability, tone, or anything else? I've read on here that they fart out a bit at lower tunings.

[DSS3]

5150 4x12's blow. Most people here will tell you they sound best with it... whatever. They sound best with V30's - those are the same guys who run BBE's with it.

Just snag a Marshall 1960AV (or A would still sound badass) or Mesa and be done with it!

[Thor Von Clemson]

I am wondering what you guys think of Avatar's 4x12 cabs? From what I have read, they are priced well, built solid, sound good, and overall are a good buy.

I am wondering if any of you who play 5150's have ever tried one new and what speakers would be best to get? I am sure I could get four V30's but the Hellatones seem like they would work well and I like the idea of mixing and matching speakers.

[DSS3]

I have a 2x12 with V30's - I like it, but I'd honestly go for something better. They're good, but good for the price, and their cheap as hell. That's about all they have going for them.

You'd be best off with a 1960AV or Mesa Trad.

[jgcable]

5150 4x12's blow. Most people here will tell you they sound best with it... whatever. They sound best with V30's - those are the same guys who run BBE's with it.

Just snag a Marshall 1960AV (or A would still sound badass) or Mesa and be done with it!

We have been in the studio recording for a while now with all kinds of amps and cabinets. To our ears.. the 5150 4 x 12 cabs sound the best with the Marshall DSL100, 5150, 5150II, Soldano SP77 rack system and even the Vetta.
We wound up doing alot of the recording using a brand new Mesa 3/4 back 1 x 12 cab because it was dead silent. All the other cabs we used rattled a little. These included the 1960a.
The 5150 cabs are certainly darker and more bottom heavy than a 1960a running vintage 30's but that type of tone is great for the heavy stuff.

[kmanick]

I've got an Avatar 2X12 with Hellatone V30's in it and it handles my 5150 no problem.
I am one of the guys that uses the BBE (sonic stomp pedal) in my loop and at low volumes it really helps. at high volumes I would not use it.
I also sometimes use a n MXR 10 band EQ in the loop, but lately it's just been teh BBE.
I also use a HotPlate with mine and I know people will say WTF it's a pre amp distortion amp blah,blah,blah You don't need one, but I found (on my 5150 combo anyway, all JJ's 2 low gain pre amp tubes) that when I turn the post gain up past 3 the amp loses some of this annoying midrange honk that these these produce at low volumes. So I turn the post gain up to 5 the pre gain up to 3 1/2-4 and cut back the volume to either -8 or -12 db's and voila it sounds like it supposed to. The gain sound isn't all that different ( a little smoother) but the tone of the amp is way better, it just opens up.
Without the plate my neighbors would be calling the cops on me every night and I'd be back to trying to EQ the midrange honk out of this thing
at low volumes.
I love my 5150 but it's not a great home practice amp. It sounds good at low volumes, but it sounds really fucking great when you open it up.
I think these things are primarily meant for stage use.

DSS3 I'm working on "Engines of hate" right now so you'll hear a clip (with vocals even) pretty soon with the BBE and the Hotplate. Your clips sound great , which is why I got my avatar cab in the first place.
I go thru greenbacks though (4X12) they work better with my B-52 and I like them with the 5150 too.