50w VS. 100w. DYNAMICS question.

[nonamemx]

I know that 50ws are pretty damn loud, and break up sooner than 100w.

I also know that 100w amps tend to have more bass thump.

I own 2 100w amps, and I always feel like the picking dynamics always change when you crank it up way the hell up. They seem to sag a bit.


I want to know, do 50w amps FEEL about the same as the 100ws when cranked?


The reason I asked was I was playing around on my Carvin X100B amp, which is 100w, and has a switch in the back where you can switch to 50% power and 25% power. I had it on 25% power and had the thing dimed out, and it sounded really damn good, and wasn't going to bother the neighbors (much). It felt rather natural and normal, just had some nice EL34 flavor in there. Its seemed alot more "controllable" if you would than if I had it dimed on the 100% setting.


I'm thinking about getting a Laney GH in the future, and trying to decide whether I would want the GH100L or the GH50L. . .so help me out a bit, guys!


(BTW, I dont gig, I plan to though! So I dont have much experience cranking tube amps. I plan to get a band together and get out there and start tearin down the house)

[Twisteramps]

You can always run 2 instead of 4 tubes in a 100 watt amp and cut the volume to 50 watt - *and* get the bigger output transformer/bigger tone of the 100 watt amp.

one other thing to consider is that sometimes it's a lot harder to sell the 50 watt version of an amp than a 100... And you can always make a 100 watt amp running at 50 watts 100 watts again, but you can't do that with a 50 watt amp, if that makes sense.

Pete

[nonamemx]

Hmm, interesting.


You run the impedence at half, right? So switch set to 8 ohms, and my cabinet is 16ohms?

I tried it before but it seemed really bright, I didn't like it so I put them back. Maybe I did something wrong, I dont know. Im willing to give it another try.


does it SOUND like its normal 50w counterpart would?

[toejam]

You run the impedence at half, right? So switch set to 8 ohms, and my cabinet is 16ohms?

No, keep the impedance matched. Pete means just pull two of the four power tubes out of the amp. For example, the two outer or the two inner.

[nonamemx]

oh, thats probably why it sounded bad last time. I half'ed the impedence, and pulled the two outer tubes. I had read somewhere that you have to half the impedence. Guess not.

[jtr]

If you have 2- 100 watts heads then get a 50 watt they are a lot easier to control and they won't be killing ears as much . They do have thier own sound but I would think if the power tubes are the same it will be close to the 100.

[JACKSONFREAK]

a 50 watt head is nearly as loud as a 100 watt head at performance levels the 100 watt is just clearer and gives a bit more head room if ya need it. I've sold mor e50 watt heads to guys that felt they neede 100watts to be heard and they all thanked me for it. saying the 50 watts was plenty and the tone was better and the amp was more responsive when comparied to the same amp at 100w vs the 50w version. Butyeah if you do the tube pulling thing pull the outside only not the inside tubes. The inside get the juice first and if ya pull those instead you could damage the head.
Gil

[Twisteramps]

a 50 watt head is nearly as loud as a 100 watt head at performance levels the 100 watt is just clearer and gives a bit more head room if ya need it. I've sold mor e50 watt heads to guys that felt they neede 100watts to be heard and they all thanked me for it. saying the 50 watts was plenty and the tone was better and the amp was more responsive when comparied to the same amp at 100w vs the 50w version. Butyeah if you do the tube pulling thing pull the outside only not the inside tubes. The inside get the juice first and if ya pull those instead you could damage the head.
Gil

It doesn't matter which pair. Gil, who told you this?

BTW, count me firmly in the 'I'd rather have a 100 watt head than a 50 club'. They just sound beefier and fuller, at the same volumes.

Pete

[toddstaples]

I thought you had do Up the impedence when you pulled 2 tubes??? .......Im thinkin of doin this to my Penta......

[JACKSONFREAK]

Pete. I actually got that from several of the techs at mesa. And have usully heard that in passing convos at work from amp guru's maybe is just more a rule of them aside from mesa to pull the outside tubes cus they easier to get at.
Gil

[Twisteramps]

Pete. I actually got that from several of the techs at mesa. And have usully heard that in passing convos at work from amp guru's maybe is just more a rule of them aside from mesa to pull the outside tubes cus they easier to get at.
Gil

There's no difference. I'd love to sit down with an amp guru and have them show me the difference on a schematic between the inside pair and outside pair of tubes. It might because on a Mesa it's easier to get at, or it may have something to do with simul-class... but in a regular amp, there is no difference.

First person who told me about pulling tubes was mitch faber from boogie back in the early 90s - I had one of the first dual rectos (SN was mid 200) and it was way too loud. He told me I could pull inside OR outside pair of tubes no problem. It helped a little bit, but it was still way too loud.

I did a real quick web search for mesa and mitch - found the following:

================================================== ===

from FAQ at nema.com - Is it ok to pull power tubes?

Pulling power tubes will help to decrease the volume a bit, but it's not a dramatic effect. pulling tubes generally results in a rounder, smoother tone with slightly less punch and headroom. you can also expect the amp to compress more quickly. if you're pulling tubes, make sure that the amp is class AB--you can't pull tubes in a class A design, so bear this in mind. also, make sure that you pull either the two outside or the two inside pairs--DO NOT pull the two left or two right.

Your impedance outputs on your amp DOUBLE as a result of pulling a pair of power tubes. therefore, your 4-ohm taps become 8-ohm taps, and your 8-ohm taps become 16-ohm taps.

Mesa's Mitch Faber on pulling tubes (pending)

>Hi Michael,
>Yes, Mitch's 'Insiders Perspective' is not at the Mesa/Boogie website anymore. The half-power/pull tube info was pretty good, and it is a common question asked the Mesa/Boogie Customer Service guys here. We will re-write the tube-pulling information into a FAQ for posting. I'll let you know when this is available.

>Thanks for your interest in Mesa/Boogie!
>-Eric

Note how 'Eric' from Mesa/Boogie agrees with the information above - that the pair pulled doesn't matter.

Pete

[slayer]

Interesting stuff Pete. Also, my Carvin X100B head has that 25/50/100 Watt switch in the back and was told to leave the Impediance switch the same on all 3 settings. How comes it is like that with the switch, but different when you pull tubes? Just curious I alos like 100 watt heads better for the headrtoom and clarity. Jack.

[jgcable]

I prefer 50 watts myself. Especially Marshall.
There is better headroom and clarity in a 100w amp but believe you me.....a good 50 watt tube amp is plenty loud.

[jtr]

I love my Marshall 100 watt but it's so loud that the only way to play it in a club is with the cabinet pointed at the wall and even than all I got is complaints. A 50 watt Marshall is still loud but not as much headroom so itdosn't project as well and isn't as loud at the back of the room. You dont need to be that loud now that sound system are so good even a 15-30 watt amp with at least 2x12 is good enough.