Time for some new Tubes... Need some help though!!!!

[DarkSaga]

Hey Guys,

Well, I finally got the Dog Whistle of Death today from my poweramp, so it is time for a total tube overhaul.

This will be my first time dealing with tubes so please bear with me, for I am a Tube Noob

My rig consists of a Digitech 2101 with 2 Classic Audio 12AX7's(Never heard of them) running into my Carvin T100 poweramp with 4 Groove Tube E34L's and 2 brandless 12AX7's.

The 4 Groove tubes have number ratings on them as follows according to their position:
V1:7 V2:7 V3:5.6 V4:5.6


Questions:

1. What do the numbers mean and which would be more desireable?

2. Should I get all 4 tubes exactly matched or get them like the previous owner had them which looks like two sets of matched pairs?

3. If I get a matched quad set of tubes say at number 6 or whatever, then would I need to have the poweramp biased?????

4. I have been looking at the Tung Sol 12AX7 and the JJ 12AX7's and E34l's as possible replacements. I play mostly metal, so I would like a nice heavy bottom end and smooth tone that won't break up and and get brittle at higher volumes when doing Rhythm and Lead duties. I got a fairly good tone when using the Groove Tubes, but an improvement, if any, would be desireable. Would the JJ's be any better or the same as the GT's????
Would there be any difference if I got the JJ 12AX7's over the Tung Sol's???

5. In the Digitech 2101, would it be beneficial to get 2 different types of tubes so lets say, I can use them to get a good heavy distorted sound and also nice warm clean tones??? Is that even a rational thought or idea ????

6. JJ Tubes makes a "higher gain" 12 AX7 tube, will that help or just make it sound like ass?????

That's all I can think of for now. All your answers and opinions are really really appreciated! Thanks guys!!


Jeremy

[horns666]

Jeremy, I just ordered a matched set of 6 Tung-Sol 12ax7 's for $121..shipped from the Tube Store.

I talked to Dan over there, he was cool. I was advised that they are the shit..we shall see.

They should arrive tomorrow or Tues I'm thinkin'..

I was told they have a very full bodied and "3D" like tone with less midrange honk than the JJ's in the Uberschall..

here they are..pricey..hope they're worth it..

http://tubestore.com/tungsol12ax7.html

Bill

[charvelguy]

I would start with preamp tubes myself. It sounds as tho it likely is a mircrophonic 12Ax7.

It may also be with your preamp and not your poweramp?

Anyways.. JJ's, from what I can tell, are constructed similar to a desired chinese type. I would have a preferred choice to use long plates in the preamp.. and yes, you can mix and match for different gain levels. I do this with my ADA. While I haven't traced the signal path on a schematic, it stands to reason that the gain stages are a combination of the two preamp tubes working in series and the cleans are only using one...which seems to stand to reason ..in part at least.. why the clean sounds are always lower in volume.

Output tubes..they may not need to be changed right away yet, but if you do decide to change them out.. a matched quad would be best. You should have them rebiased just so you know they are operating equally at the proper plate voltage. If you are relacing GT El34's with GT El34's.. you can probably slide on having to have them rebiased right away... but think of it as being similar to getting all four tires changed on your car.. you want them to all be mounted & balanced to be the same.. and for the best desired ride, wear and gas mileage.. all should have eqaul proper inflation according to spec.

From those ratings you relayed was written on your outputs.. it sounds like they probably are two matched duets that are unmatched to one another.. you'll want to change them all out. Groove Tubes rating are rated for breakup..its mentioned on their website.. but..if I recall.. the lower the number the earlier the breakup, the higher the number.. the more headroom the tube will offer before distorting. I like Svetlana winged C series myself.

[DarkSaga]

BillZbub:
Thanks for the reply even though you were hopped up on Ambien
Please let us know how you like the Tung Sols because I definitely need some opinions about them especially when playing heavy stuff that needs a tight bottom

CharvelGuy: Thanks for the detailed response!! What is the benefit or difference between using the long plated 12AX7's as oppose to the regular ones???
Also, in reference to the Groove Tube rating number, is earlier or later breakup more desireable?? Could you or someone else describe the purpose or pro/con of each end of the tube breakup spectrum?

I am really looking for tubes that will help keep the bass heavy and tight and not sound too brittle/shrill or honky when dimed at band playing levels! Any and all suggestions of tubes that will help me acheive this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks guys!


Also what are some going rates for a bias job?????

[horns666]

Will do man, I can't waite to hear them myself..

I'm lookin' for the same thing you are..

[toejam]

Groove Tubes rating are rated for breakup..its mentioned on their website.. but..if I recall.. the lower the number the earlier the breakup, the higher the number.. the more headroom the tube will offer before distorting.

Yes, 1-3 is for early distortion (softer attack, best for rock and blues solos), 4-7 is normal distortion (normal performance, best for all-around tone), and 8-10 is late distortion (most dynamic and clean, best for jazz and bass amps).

[horns666]

The lower the # the sooner it will distort..

I was advised that Ed always ran Groove Tube 6L6 # 2's in all his 5150s..So I bought them and put 'em in mine..didn't like 'em..

The stock ones sounded better..so I put those back in there..so I was stuck tubes I didn't like..I should have sent them back..or tried to.

That was well over 10 years ago..

[charvelguy]

To me.. a long plate 12AX7 sound more full, and have greater bass response...I use a 12BZ7 sometimes just because it is a longer style plate and glass...it gives a better tonal response for low end in the preamp controls and works well in the phase inverter position, sometimes the V2...however.. it also is a slightly different sounding tube even tho it is a relative of the 12AX7 family.
12BZ7's also tend to go microphonic.. so a military version is best.

Longer plates are just a matter of preference for me. Again.. I like to mix up the matching in some positions. Your ears can hear the difference and the response is perceivable too.....you have to consider the era, the equipment, the technology and standards were different...in the 50's, a car radio had tubes but not alot of room. Military equipment had tubes as well.. and some tubes had to be durable for the Gov't services..companies even made select grade tubes for different services for higher levels/branch of Gov't or medical service..but if longplates did not serve a purpose for audiophiles or applications..they would've been phased out and companies would not have made them.

We also can get into different plates made of different materials or construction. They made tubes in so many varieties they were like condoms.. there again is another argument in itself of what is best to ones ears.

Bench rate for most guys is like 40-50/hr for a bias. Its been many years since I had someone bias my amps..but if you find someone who does it for 20-25.00.. I'd say that is a fair price.

[sl2lover]

So what are good 12ax7 types for a lotta distortion for metal?? I understand that Ruby 12ax7's are preferred??