Typical Marshall vs High Gain

[jgcable]

Hey guys. Finally I have a working computer again.
Lots have changed lately.
I have been doing alot of tone evaluating with my Marshall 1987x.
I know what I like. I am an EL34 Marshall tone type guy. The characteristics, sag, breath and midrange of a Marshall EL34 driven amp is what I like. I don't play with a ton of gain compared to todays standards but I would still consider my tone HIGH GAIN.
Here is the amp I have been diving into.
1992 Marshall 1987x with Weber Mini-Mass Attenuator and a HBE Big D Distortion/preamp pedal out in front.
The cabinet I am using is a Randall loaded with Vintage 30's.
Various guitars.. all humbuckers.
The Marshall volume was set around 7.
1st of all.. the Weber does a nice job of taming this beast of an amp.
Its good from moderate bedroom levels all the way up to arena volume.
Without the Big D this Marshall gets that classic Marshall overdriven tone. To my ears it sounds like the rhythm tracks from Judas Priest Rock-a-Rolla, the rhythm tracks from Kiss's 1st few records. Sounds great for vintage hard rock/metal rhythm playing. Organic, natural, loud with great difinition and cuts through the mix even if the amp is lower than the other amps in the band. You can roll back the guitar volume and it cleans up very nicely. The funny thing is.. that I was just goofing off playing to Bostons 3rd album Walk On and except for the lack of gain, saturation and effects, the tone was extremely similar to the tone on the record.
Same thing with Dokken Back for the Attack. Obviously I could tell I needed 10 times more gain and effects but the general tone of this Marshall was pretty much nailing the classic Lynch tone.
The Big D comes into play for solo's or if you need a heavier rhythm tone. It has a ton of settings on it that range from good to very good. The nice thing about it is on certain settings it really doesn't alter your basic sound. It just adds more gain to it.
So... is tone more important than gain?
Its obvious that in order to play certain styles of music you need certain amounts of gain. But.. when you choose a high gain amp do you sacrifice some of your tone for it?
This rig is probably the most basic rig I have owned since I played metal for a living back in the 80's. It puts all the power and control at your guitar. Its extremely fun to play and after a while I begin to forget the fact that its extremely "low gain" as compared to some of my other amps.
If I was in a classic rock band this would be the amp I would choose.
I wouldn't choose it for high gain metal.
With a vintage Marshall Plexi amp you can really begin to appreciate where the great Marshall tone we all know and love originated.

[Fragle]

"Same thing with Dokken Back for the Attack. Obviously I could tell I needed 10 times more gain and effects but the general tone of this Marshall was pretty much nailing the classic Lynch tone. "

according to neil kernon, back for the attack rhythms were recorded going straight in, without any fx or boosts in front of the plexi. the sustainiac and tubescreamer were only used for leads.

[Twisteramps]

Wow, the same amp goes from Boston to Dokken to KISS to Priest? Very cool, but those tones seem worlds apart imho.

Pete

[jgcable]

Wow, the same amp goes from Boston to Dokken to KISS to Priest? Very cool, but those tones seem worlds apart imho.

Pete

I thought so too Pete but I am talking about the basic fundamental tone. Boston tone is very compressed, thick and heavily effected but the basic root tone is Marshall. I think that is what Tom was going for but in a much more processed signature style.
My guitar fell right into the mix when playing along with these bands. The only think lacking was the amount of gain. The tone was there.

[yabba]

I think single channel control-everything-from-the-guitar amps are more fun to play too frees you up to be more expressive with your fingers.

(though obviously it won't work for _everything_, if you're a cover band and need a huge range of tones, it's probably not the sort of set up for you, etc.

[jtr]

I've used Marshall JMP for years and between pickup selection and using your volume control you can be very versatile withe that setup.

[Rsmacker]

Great post there jgcable, I can hear your tone just from your description! Many years ago, for some long forgotten reason, I was left before a gig unable to use my sooper-dooper Rack of Doom and had to go home and drag the old Marshall head and DS1 out. Not best pleased, obviously, after shelling out for the ADA etc but when I stood in front of the stack.........
I could well have spent the entire show standing facing my cabs, grinning like a wanking jap sipping vinegar, sporting serious wood (and I don't mean my Jacksons!). Trouser-flapping bottom end, sizzling top end, sweet mid, the wonderful singing of the bottles. It was a turning point.

I ended up flogging my Rack of Doom, and going back to using good old Marshall heads. My favourites are the Jubilee series, closely followed by 50w MV JCM800's. The roar from amps like this is just superb, as jgcable says, you can hear it throughout the mix. (Not like some of this modern tripe, which sounds rock when you are letting rip on your own, but which disappears into a quagmire when the rest of the band kicks in. Hmmm, yep, "the band", a pain in the arse, but we can't do much without them!)

My Marshall collection is now.....ooh, "extensive"! Jubilees, JCM800s, JMPs, JTM45, 4 x 12s, 2 x 12s, 8 x 10s, even an old Park head which kills pigeons at 40 paces. Every now and again I think I'd like something hi-tech and modern, then I hear that Marshall tone and I settle down again. I can hear it a mile off, I swear, even in the diverse range of models listed above. None of the cack which is about that supposedly gives you the tones of "every amp under the sun" actually delivers IMHO, (apart from perhaps the original 19" Sansamp, but that's muddying the waters, so let's just ignore that bit for now, and soak up the glory of the Marshalls !!!)

But don't take my word for it, get out there and give it a go!!!

[donvandam]

Argh Stop it John! You're making me more excited to try the Super Tremolo!

[nonamemx]

Wow, the same amp goes from Boston to Dokken to KISS to Priest? Very cool, but those tones seem worlds apart imho.

Pete

Yeah, but they're all Marshall?

[Shawn Lutz]

I find the higher in volume level I go, the less gain I use. I have always been a Marshall based tone kinda guy. Its a perfect base to build upon.

Gain is way overused and overrated...nothing is more sour to my ears than too much gain and not enough beef...

[Elfastball7]

I find the higher in volume level I go, the less gain I use. I have always been a Marshall based tone kinda guy. Its a perfect base to build upon.

Gain is way overused and overrated...nothing is more sour to my ears than too much gain and not enough beef...

Marshall's are great, especially the JCM 800. I was over at my uncle's friend's house where he has a JCM 800 100 watt from the late 80's. And I could get any sort of tone from a Preist/Maiden sound, a Megadeth/Testament sound and a good Death metal tone with strong mids with that amp alongside a OD/DS pedal that let the guitar tone through. What is also great about the JCM 800 is how it does not have a scooped mid sound like a Mesa Boogie does.

[MOSHWITZ]

Sup?
John,, what particular Randall cab do you have? Are you diggin it with the V30's? I have one that came with those Jaguar speakers,and after some years now, I just dont think i really like them, and have been tossing aroung putting new speakers in it. i have put my 150 watt Celestion Sidewinders in it that came out of my 70's Carvin cab , just to hear, but i think i like them in the Carvin cab better, it is all open inside and the Randall is 2 compartments ( top speakers and bottom speakers.

MOSH ON
DAVE

[Racerx2k]

I find the higher in volume level I go, the less gain I use. I have always been a Marshall based tone kinda guy. Its a perfect base to build upon.

Gain is way overused and overrated...nothing is more sour to my ears than too much gain and not enough beef...

+1. I find what I'm looking for is not so much major gain, but a fair amount of sustain. If I have the sustain, at a higher volume with lower gain, great. So be it.

[Twisteramps]

Yeah, but they're all Marshall?

That's like saying a recto, a Mark IV, a studio .22 and a Stiletto are all boogies, right?



besides, someone's tone isn't just in the amp - the guitar and how it was recorded has a little bit to do with it too, at least in my opinion.

[jgcable]

Sup?
John,, what particular Randall cab do you have? Are you diggin it with the V30's? I have one that came with those Jaguar speakers,and after some years now, I just dont think i really like them, and have been tossing aroung putting new speakers in it. i have put my 150 watt Celestion Sidewinders in it that came out of my 70's Carvin cab , just to hear, but i think i like them in the Carvin cab better, it is all open inside and the Randall is 2 compartments ( top speakers and bottom speakers.

MOSH ON
DAVE

I have 2 Randall 2 x 12 slant cabs. 1 is a closed back with Vin 30's in it. The other is an open back with Altec Lansing 300w Whiteframes.
I prefer the Altec Lansings but the combination of the 2 is absolutely killer.
They are great cabinets. My favorites. I also have a stock 4 x 12 5150 cab and a Mesa 3/4 back with the 90w Black Shadow in it.