Typical Marshall vs High Gain

[jgcable]

That's like saying a recto, a Mark IV, a studio .22 and a Stiletto are all boogies, right?



besides, someone's tone isn't just in the amp - the guitar and how it was recorded has a little bit to do with it too, at least in my opinion.

Thats 100% correct but keep in mind... Mesa has never been known for 1 tone. They have almost always been very diverse.
I think that everybody could agree that the standard cranked Marshall tone could be considered Marshalls "signature tone".

[Twisteramps]

Thats 100% correct but keep in mind... Mesa has never been known for 1 tone. They have almost always been very diverse.
I think that everybody could agree that the standard cranked Marshall tone could be considered Marshalls "signature tone".

I dunno man. I've had a 50 watt JMP, 2203s stock and modded, 2204, 2205, 2210s, a silver jub, a JCM 900 and a few others - when I was younger I had a early 70s plexi and thought it sucked because it didn't have much gain! I just don't see them all having the same tone like I don't hear Dokken, Boston, Kiss and Judas Priest sounding alike or all those tones in the same amp. Maybe they do have a little in common, but there's enough difference to my ear that I'd never say they all could be found easily in the same amplifier, especially a one channel amp and using the same guitar for all of them. A Les Paul into a marshall sounds a lot different than a bolt on superstrat to me, even if it's the same amp.

...but that's just me. Maybe modelling spoiled my ear.

Pete

[horns666]

I'm going with the rule of whatever works for you..

what works for some may not work for others..

I found what works for me!!!

I don't give a monkey's titty who likes it, or don't like it..

I don't need "approval" to love MY amp of choice.

Shawn, Pete and John for example..great players..I may play your amps and think it totally blows for my style..and visa versa.

You guys have good gear, I'm sure I could work with it even if I need the assist of a 40 dollar stomp!

Love,

Billy

[jtr]

All marshall do sound different even if they have cosectutive Ser. #. I've try dozens of them a few were great and those I bought. Each one has it own personality and sound The 100watt tremelo top has massive headroom and is easily the best sounding but only after you turn the volume pass 5. At that point it'll move pant legs and make you lose you hearing or at least give you ringing in your ears ( for the rest of your life )to remember it by. The 2 JMP 50 watt both are not as concusive and a lot easier to control sound full with nice harmonics & sustain but they don't sound the same one has more high end. And like horns666 said what works for you may not for me.

[Endrik]

What is also great about the JCM 800 is how it does not have a scooped mid sound like a Mesa Boogie does.

have you ever played with MB amps? I guess not, some of the old Mark IIs had eight times more powerfull midrange than all the marshalls I've ever played with.
And if you are refering to rectos, then yes they have a scooped mid sound when you turn the mids down, JCM 800 has a scooped sound too if you turn the mids down (late 80's thrash metal). It's that simple.

[Endrik]

A lot of those great bands mentioned here used the same types of amps, but the tone difference comes from the player (picking attack, left hand pressure etc. etc.), the guitar type and wood, pickups, knob settings, gain setting, volume setting, gain boosting pedals settings etc.

AC/DC's Back In Black is volume maxed and a VERY little gain, EVH is all knobs maxed + variac. Totally different tones but you still can hear similar Marshall type crunch in both of their tones.

[horns666]

I had a shitload of Marshalls, they all sounded different when right next to each other..

I had a MrkIII as well..I like it but not as much as the Marshalls. A bit too "saggy" for me..for ME!

I nailed the Corridoors of power tone with it tho...had the intro solo to the end of the world pretty damn nailed with it.

I'm partial to Marshalls, they have a very quick attack and a awesome definition all their own to my ears..

My Marshall rig is my favorite Marshall tone I ever had..I traded two mint 2210s and my left one for this thing because it smoked them. I still love it as much as I did the first day I heard it!

again, whatever works for you..Any amp that let's you smoke without restraint is a great amp!!

[Endrik]

I don't have anything to do with most of the Marshalls but I would kill for a Cameron's Aldrich mod Plexi or Jose modded Plexi

[Racerx2k]

I'm going with the rule of whatever works for you..

what works for some may not work for others..

I found what works for me!!!

I don't give a monkey's titty who likes it, or don't like it..

I don't need "approval" to love MY amp of choice.

Shawn, Pete and John for example..great players..I may play your amps and think it totally blows for my style..and visa versa.

You guys have good gear, I'm sure I could work with it even if I need the assist of a 40 dollar stomp!

Love,

Billy

Amen, brother. I know how ya feel.

[Elfastball7]

have you ever played with MB amps? I guess not, some of the old Mark IIs had eight times more powerfull midrange than all the marshalls I've ever played with.
And if you are refering to rectos, then yes they have a scooped mid sound when you turn the mids down, JCM 800 has a scooped sound too if you turn the mids down (late 80's thrash metal). It's that simple.

My bad, I was refering to the Rectos

[Adam]

have you ever played with MB amps? I guess not, some of the old Mark IIs had eight times more powerfull midrange than all the marshalls I've ever played with.
And if you are refering to rectos, then yes they have a scooped mid sound when you turn the mids down, JCM 800 has a scooped sound too if you turn the mids down (late 80's thrash metal). It's that simple.

Eight times more powerful? Like, exactly eight times? How do you measure that?

[Endrik]

Eight times more powerful? Like, exactly eight times? How do you measure that?

first, I rate how stupid the question such as this is in 1-to-10 point system.

Then I multiply it with Pi,

after that I divide it with 100.

Then I have 1 measure, so I can make a ruler based on this measure.

Then I take 1 Marshall and 1 M/B MKII, all the knobs set in the middle. I record samples with both of them using a 1$ PC mic, and a cheap ass sound card.

Then I play both of those clips in Winamp and measure the mid range with the ruler on winamp's eq/peak screen.

And that's basically it.

[Adam]

first, I rate how stupid the question such as this is in 1-to-10 point system.

Then I multiply it with Pi,

after that I divide it with 100.

Then I have 1 measure, so I can make a ruler based on this measure.

Then I take 1 Marshall and 1 M/B MKII, all the knobs set in the middle. I record samples with both of them using a 1$ PC mic, and a cheap ass sound card.

Then I play both of those clips in Winamp and measure the mid range with the ruler on winamp's eq/peak screen.

And that's basically it.

"Garbage in, garbage out."

[jwoods986]

Well I am starting to see the light on this subject. When playing an amp, I would always go right to the "high gain" setting. For example, on a Single Recto the "modern" gain, the "Insane" setting on a Spider II, or the high gain "lead" channel (with the gain around 8) on my Crate XT120R. But the funny thing is, almost all of the stuff I play - VH, early Rush, Dokken, Priest, Ozzy w/RR, etc. - was all Marshalls without a ton of gain. Just cranked Marshalls.

My neighbor's house is for sale and I have most of his gear in my basement until he moves, including some sweet guitars. Amp-wise, an Epiphone 10-watt tube combo, a rack setup with an Engl 620 pre-amp into a Mesa 50/50, and last but not least, a Marshall DSL100 half-stack, are all sitting in my basement. On Saturday I hooked the DSL up and played with it for a good hour or more. I started off with his Strat Plus and went through all four settings - clean then crunch on the classic gain channel, and lead 1/lead 2 on the Ultra Gain channel. Then I grabbed his Gibson Faded V and went through all 4 settings (and messed with the Deep switch and Tone Shift buttons). In the past, I probably would have ended up on the Lead 2 of the Ultra channel with the gain around 8. But I found "the sound" with the V on the Lead 1 mode with the gain at 5 and turning the volume up higher instead of the gain.

I think what I've discovered is that at low volume the higher gain helps give you a ballsier sound (and mask mistakes!) but once you start cranking it up, you don't need as much gain. Just a revelation on my part but now I can start shopping for a Marshall! I'll just need an attenuator with it so I can crank it.

On a side note - I just remembered that I played a Vox ad15vt last month and went right to the US high gain (modeled after the SLO) but ended up liking the 80s UK (Marshall) the best. So it's less gain for me from now on!

[jgcable]

I dunno man. I've had a 50 watt JMP, 2203s stock and modded, 2204, 2205, 2210s, a silver jub, a JCM 900 and a few others - when I was younger I had a early 70s plexi and thought it sucked because it didn't have much gain! I just don't see them all having the same tone like I don't hear Dokken, Boston, Kiss and Judas Priest sounding alike or all those tones in the same amp. Maybe they do have a little in common, but there's enough difference to my ear that I'd never say they all could be found easily in the same amplifier, especially a one channel amp and using the same guitar for all of them. A Les Paul into a marshall sounds a lot different than a bolt on superstrat to me, even if it's the same amp.

...but that's just me. Maybe modelling spoiled my ear.

Pete

Again Pete.. I agree but... all the above amps you mentioned have the fundamental basic Marshall tone. Of course they all don't sound exactly the same because they are all built differently.
Let me try to explain it better. Take a DSL100 for example. Most of you hate them. I think its a fine amp for the money. With some tweaking and dialing the gain down you can get an almost exact Plexi type tone.
Take a Jubilee... same thing. If you dial down the gain and you turn it up really loud you can get it to sound very much like a Plexi.
Take a Plexi and get it modded for high gain. It will sound pretty similar to a Jubilee.
Now... lets look at Mesa.
Take a Mark III or Mark IV and tweak it to death and it will never sound like a Rectifier and visa versa. Not even close. Take a Nomad and tweak it all day long and it won't sound like a Rectifier. Take an F50 and tweak it and you can get a little closer but not much.

My point is that even a Marshall Valvestate VS100 has the "Marshall" tone. I even played one of those 8040's that sounded like a "Marshall" to my ears.
Marshall is the one company that really hasn't strayed much from their signature tone. Some of their amps need a boost or a mod or a pedal or a different guitar or amp to get the "Marshall" tone but they can all get to that "basic, fundamental Marshall signature tone".
The JTM45's or the Plexi's are the granddaddys of that tone.