Tung-Sol 12ax7..are they worth it??

[Electric]

i am ordering a set for my powerball monday under 200 bucks is always worth a shot...I figure what the hell.the stock tubes in the engl sucked so I replace them all with JJ's and am very happy with the change.but let's see what happens with the engl PB/tung-sol preamp experiment

Please post results when you get yours in....I have a Powerball and am needing new tubes sometime soon. I'd love to hear your take on them in a Powerball

[horns666]

Please post results when you get yours in....I have a Powerball and am needing new tubes sometime soon. I'd love to hear your take on them in a Powerball

Me too!!

[Fragle]

bill, the uberschall is an el34 amp, right?
because my framus cobra is, too, and apparently it sounds soooo much better with new tubes and a higher bias setting than than it does stock...and believe me, it sounds awesome as it is. it does take some tweaking, but i've absolutely CRUSHED several marshalls, old ones as well as new ones, my 5150 which i though was the best amp i've ever owned, all the way to high end engls.
now if the mids only were a tad higher voiced....it's a very low mid centered amp.
bill, you NEED to try the framus cobra, and tell me how it compares to the uberschall. to get the best tone out of it, use an overdrive on the crunch channel - the lead channel sounds great, too, but not as tight and articulate as the overdriven crunch channel. imho.

[kmanick]

well I just ordered a match set of these for my B-52 AT-100 Combo.
That amp is real bright and it could use some "darkening" especially when I play my Hellraiser 7 through it
those EMG 707's are bright as hell.
I have high gain JJ's in there right now and it sounds pretty damn good , so I'm real interested to see if I hear a difference (and what that difference is)

[fr0sty]

I just purchased one to put in the v1 spot of the modern high gain channel on my Peters Dual channel. It replaced a sovtec 12ax7wc (which is a great tube btw).

So far it seems good. I did not get much of a chance to crank it yet. It does seem to take away some of the brittle high end the sovtec tends to have.

[horns666]

Fragle , yes dude..it is El34 and that was my only complaint with the Uber because ..The Uber used to reall "Honk" when cranked..until I throw all six Tung Sols in the bastid..then it became a total different animal all together..it doesn't, that honk is completly gone and I had to back off on the bass because it was just too much..no flubbing at all..but the frequ all seemd to shift to much bassier territoty..dude, the only way to test drive a Uber..especially..you because I think we both go for that same kind of brutality..is max the gain..all the way..don't backed it off a tad..not a cunt hair..it sound best that way..believe me..for thrash, death metal..I know you can't do that with a recto or 5150..those will completely mush out, I know this as fact, after owning both....so next time you ever play a Uber..the first thing you must do..is MAX the knob on the far right..I heard great things about the Cobra..it was my dude's second choice..if he didn't like the Uber..he would have bought a Framus..I was told, I would LOVE to try one!!

I heard that the VHT Deliverance was pretty cool too..I think the dude liked it better than his Powerball..but he didn't elaborate at all..he just tunnel visoned on the Bogner really..

I like the Uber so much better with the tube swap..I'll NEVER go back to JJ's again!!

Nick..I heard some dude playing a B52 at GC..it caught my attention..didn't sound bad at all..I didn't play it..just heard a decent tone..looked and saw it was that..YES the Tung Sols will definitely darken your tone..you'll hear the difference immediately.

Frosty..cool, let me know how that works out..hey if it kicks you ass, are you going to add more TSs..I even got mine in the effects loops..maybe that does make a difference too..I don't know..I should try just putting the JJ's in that position and use the two Tung Sols as spares..hmmmm..that's a thought..

let me know what you think when you get them..I can't praise them enough..mainly because it remedied my only complaint with the Uberschall..

Bill Z Bub..

[Mickey_C]

Matching 12AX7 preamp tubes is a waste of money. You will want well matched triodes for a phase inverter tube, but that's it.

Tube matching is important in tubes that work in pairs (or quads, with each corresponding pair matched). In a guitar amplifier, that's just the output section (power amplifier). Unmatched tubes can cause greater residual DC in the output transformer core, causing frequency loss (mainly in the bass frequencies), transformer overheating (with grossly mismatched tubes) and hum. However, it's most damaging to the tubes themselves.

It's my philosophy that all amplifiers should have an individual bias for every tube, so there is no necessity to buy matched tubes, and also because the actual matching of tubes goes out the window after break in. Why modern manufacturers repeat the mistakes of the past is beyond me. Tubes are no longer cheap replaceable parts - even new manufactured ones are pricey.

Anyhow, in preamp tubes it's a waste of money. When ordering a matched 12AX7, the only thing you should be asking for is a matched triode, for your phase inverter (or concertina or schmitt splitter).

BTW - I'm also on the crusade against dependancy on NOS tubes to properly eq an amplifier. I believe (and live by) amplification designs that work well with currently available tubes. That being said, there really aren't any 12AX7 tubes made that are as robust as the better NOS. But, IMHO, you shouldn't need them to get a decent tone from newer amps (though they can take a decent sounding amp over the top - imagine what the NOS stuff would do in that bogner).

In any case it sounds like it all worked out well for you, if you're digging the sound of the amp! And that's a very positive report on the New Sensor (sovtek) Tung Sol reissue.

.02 from a tube amplifier manufacturer.

Mickey

[Chad]

Thanks for the info, Mickey. On the HC Amp forum, I actually read a pretty convincing argument from Lord Valve that even getting a matched preamp tube for the PI position is a waste. Since that's only one tube, I'd probably buy it matched anyway just to be safe.

BTW, what amps have individual tube bias? The Randall RM100 is one I can think of. That does seem like a really cool feature.

[fr0sty]

James Peters, the guy who builds the Peters Dual Channel said the same thing about the balanced phase inverter tube not being needed.

Thanks for the info, Mickey. On the HC Amp forum, I actually read a pretty convincing argument from Lord Valve that even getting a matched preamp tube for the PI position is a waste. Since that's only one tube, I'd probably buy it matched anyway just to be safe.

BTW, what amps have individual tube bias? The Randall RM100 is one I can think of. That does seem like a really cool feature.

[Misanthrope189]

I don't think amplifier manufacturers should step down to shit-quality tubes. I think it should be the tube manufacturer's responsibility to step up to the demands of high-quality amplification.

Cheers,
Nick

[horns666]

I don't think amplifier manufacturers should step down to shit-quality tubes. I think it should be the tube manufacturer's responsibility to step up to the demands of high-quality amplification.

Cheers,
Nick

I agree 100%..but a lot of peeps love the JJ's for the Marshall like midrange "honk" because it cuts thru a mix better..so what you want THAT to cut thru a mix..not me. .

I like mids but not where it "Honks" like a car horn..not cool..IMO!!

[Mickey_C]

I am not advocating tube manufacturers making shit tubes. But the fact is there was an incredible technology loss there. Tubes were the culmination of 50 years of cutting edge electronics, and the companies making them were the cutting edge electronics companies of their day (RCA, GE, MULLARD, PHILIPS). The QA process that drove these tubes to such perfection was the actual applications these tubes were used in, which ranged from Radio and Television to science and research. The companies making them now are at the other end of the spectrum, and the applications have dwindled to support of end-of-life equipment, or tube audio and guitar amplification. There's a critical feedback loop that is too small, and the companies are too archaic, to match the old days when tubes WERE high-tech.

I am just saying because tubes like the JJ are what we have to work with, we should do our damnest to make them work.

As the economies in these other countries pick up, as with their technology, I think we may see less tubes made not more. Look at the prices for NOS Sovteks these days. Some of the Russian tubes are now unmatched by current production standards too. The day might come where you'll pay top dollar for a 2006 JJ 803S.

Just my .02, of course.

BTW - I agree mostly with LV on that note, I was just pointing out that it's the only 12AX7 tube in a guitar amp that any argument can be made for a matched triode. That being said, I do use matched triodes in the PI of all my amps.

London Power LTD's (Kevin O'Connor, tube amp guru) amps are individual tube biased, as are Maven Peal and Soultone Amplification's. All three have voltage control designs, which besides controlling the overall power output of the amp also preserve tube life.

[horns666]

Hey Mickey C..what's up..well that was pretty impressive, technical verbage and input there bro..

I'm not as serious about the actual science of tone as I'm am about great tone in general..

Just like I love fast, kick ass cars and own a Factory Five Cobra and a Corvette..but I can't turn a screw..nor want to!!

BTW..They used "Mullard" as a reference with the Tung Sols..

Like I said..I spent over 100 bucks already for 6 tubes..what's another $17 more for matching ones..what they heck, it can't hurt..and maybe just maybe..that's what giving my Uber the new found "mo Jo' it has..could be..

All I know is I'm much happier with the Uberchall with the Tung Sols due to the advice from Dan from The Tube Store ...even tho Bogner INSIST on using the stock JJ's..and they do insist..I got the manual..!!


You could put a stock Uber loaded with stock JJs and A/B it to mine with the Tung Sols and the difference is l night and day..in a good way...ways I never expected..it sounds and feels like a different amp.

I just wanted to share my enthusiasm and joy to those who may be thinking of ditching a great amp because of a silly tonal quirk..that could be easily resolved.

Bill Z Bub..

[Misanthrope189]

That is funny of Bogner to demand JJs. I can understand Mesa advertising the use of their own tubes for tonal and warranty reasons (as well as the money), but for Bogner to demand JJs is kinda strange. *shrugs* Oh well...they always say going outside of the factory recommended settings creates the best tone.

Cheers,
Nick

[horns666]

That is funny of Bogner to demand JJs. I can understand Mesa advertising the use of their own tubes for tonal and warranty reasons (as well as the money), but for Bogner to demand JJs is kinda strange. *shrugs* Oh well...they always say going outside of the factory recommended settings creates the best tone.

Cheers,
Nick

Yeah, Nick, waite ..I'll get the manual..

OK..I'll type this crap..

from the Uberschall manual..

Changing Tubes - When changing tubes you should use a MATCHED set of TESLA brand tube, you will NOT have to re-bias your amp if you use this brand. TESLA tubes are very well made and can reliably handle our high-power ciruit designs, other newer brands of tube will work, but our test show TESLA to allow you to plug in a new set with no biasing needed and get back to making music fast! CHINESE 12ax7 pre-amp tubes work best to maintain the original tone of your amp. SEAN'S TIP:..Keep an extra set of tubes around, tubes always seem to go bad when you have that really big gig at the FORUM.

I should Email Bogner and tell them of my discovery..and that Sean is gay!!

You got to see/hear their setting suggestion they give you in here for a very "heavy" sound..they NEED my fuggin' settings..I'll say that much..because they're settings blow ..

I think!

Bill Z