Rack setup questions

[PeteL]

Having searched on google with no great results, and going through several pages of search results here and elsewhere, I've found no basic FAQ or basic introduction to what rack setups are, how they work, why you would use one, etc. Does anybody have any links or care to provide a BRIEF description in a nutshell?

As I understand it, you only "need" a preamp and power-amp to get going, but of course all your effects, tuners, etc are mountable on the same rack for convenience.

It seems to me (with my limited knowledge) that racks are really good for touring/professional musicians because they take up less space and you can have an array of sounds without switching amps for every song. Can the amateur musician still enjoy a rack-mounted amp?

What would be a good, basic setup to try-out this rack-mountable equipment? I've noticed the ADA MP-1 is a very popular and cheap pre-amp, especialy good for the 80s rock/metal sounds.

Sorry if this topics seems vague, I'm just looking for kind of a rack-gear 101/beginner's guide or suggestions to get "into" the game without breaking the bank (if that's possible). The whole subject is just one I never got into, but now that I may be playing more live, it's something I'm looking into. Band plays pop-rock from clean melodies to Rammstein-esque riffs in a couple numbers.

Thanks.

[charvelguy]

There's a few different style of preamps.
1. midi or non midi
2. tube or ss, analog or digital.
3. plain basic pre w/o effects or minimal effects.
4. loaded with effects, tuner etc..
5. same as above only with power amp included or tied in.

Things I'd consider in Poweramps:
1. SS or tube
2. wattage and make
3. reliability
4. tone and tonal options

If you are thinking MP1 and want more effects outside of a chorus, spend a little more..get an MP2.

ADA has a very user friendly interface and its not over the top in cost or options. Course, everybody tends to think their rack setup is the shit and before ya know it, you'll have about 500.00 stuck into a basic pre, poweramp and midi board.

When I first started exploring options, I set my budget at 500 or less for used gear and I met that.

ADA MP1: 130.00 (they were cheaper years ago)
Peavey Classic 60 poweramp: 200.00
ART X12 midi controller: 50-60.00
Midi cables: 10-20.00
new tubes ran about 50-60 for everything.

You can pick up a combo pre-power amp for much less, but you cannot mix and match and the options of that are limited, but if it has what you want, then if may be a better way to go.


Use the search function for keywords like tube poweramp or ADA, you'll find alot of info here in itself to go through.

[PeteL]

Thanks VERY MUCh for that info. Truly helpful!

So, midi cannot be plugged into just anything?...

I'll search

[charvelguy]

Midi is simply a method of controlling the device and how it interfaced.
Musical Instrument Digital Interface.
Midi interfaces with midi.. so it has to have a midi port or three; in,out,thru.

It sounds like a scary term and ya may think.."how the hell am I gonna remember that?" type of thing, but really, its not to far off from a 1/4 guitar cord into 1/4 input jack and having a footswitch switch bwtn clean and dirty.
which is another basic type of preamp.

A Rocktron Gainiac or a Chandler tube rackmount is like that I believe.
I'd say it is no more than or much different than rack mouted 12xa7 power pedal. No frills, no effects, no midi..rack mounted guitar pedal with a tube or two. Just requires 1/4 cables.

Some, usually older Midi preamps have one other thing you may want to consider; lag in the switching. For some, this is very annoying in a live situation...but for the most part, midi is instant, just the preamp processor and chipset is slow in the change. from this setting/sound to the next
Just like a computer, slower older processors lag in loading.. chip based preamps are not much different.

Alot of guys can get a POD 2.0 or even an LINE 6 XT, V-AMP2 or a J-station, most offer a foot controller, have one built in or you can buy a cheapo midi controller for 50 bucks.. get a Crate power block from MF for 99.00 and you got a cheap start.. probably for under 300.00 and it would likely be versatile enough for live doing the material you do.

[PeteL]

Wow, not a bad idea there with that Crate Block. You would somehow use only the power-amp section of the Crate and use the ADA preamp unit, for example, as the preamp?

This is very interesting stuff! Must be a big world of rack/MIDI stuff out there (trying not to sound too new to this! )

Any suggestions between those 4 preamps you mentioned?

[charvelguy]

Yes, the Crate can be used as a cheap power amp alternate... and you can use it with an ADA.

There are so many options to choose from, it would make your head spin like the exorcist.

My preferences would be my preferences..each company has their own sounds. To me a POD sounds alot different than a J-station.. and then you get into older Line 6 stuff as opposed to newer..

The modelers have advantages and drawbacks.. but they usually have a half dozen core sounds with a few variants of those and effects you can add. British stack sounds like the WHO's sound from live at leeds as a base and not Hendrix at woodstock. The company heads must've took a poll as to what to use as a basis for the name of the sound.
You get tradeoffs for each camps... tube, solid state, response time, feel, can be realtive to how much invested, a name brand ect..

but... what was good in the 80's, or even 10-15 years that cost an arm and a leg can be just as good now and alot cheaper...that is really something I keep in mind when I'm shopping.

[PeteL]

Thanks again man, great info!

[charvelguy]

Your welcome.. you'll find alot of great info here.... ya just gotta look about a bit.. and no I don't work for Guitar Center or MGR... so don't blame them.
Good luck with your quest..I'm out for dinner-which is a variant of out to lunch-peace.

[Inazone]

As a fairly recent "convert" to the rack concept, I wanted to find a rig that would match or improve upon the tones and versatility of my pedal/amp rig. I don't use a LOT of effects, but I switch between clean and distorted often, with delay for leads. What I quickly found was that it doesn't take long before the number of footswitches and MIDI controls outnumber the stompboxes I was using before - no good! In addition, some of the preamps with the tones I liked the best didn't have switchable effects loop, or had a gap in channel/loop switching.

I ended up going with a very affordable stereo rig. There are so many good deals out there on rack gear that if you can't find a preamp that will cover all of your needs on its own, you can get a second for not much more money. I actually picked up three used preamps (ART DST-4, ADA MP-1, Peavey Rockmaster) for less than the cost of many new models. Carvin and Peavey stereo tube power amps are still fairly inexpensive, and rack effects processors can be had for dirt cheap. I actually went a little overboard, but my band is heading into the studio soon, and I wanted to have every option covered. Even so, I have under $1200 invested into the following:

- Peavey Rockmaster preamp
- ADA MP-1 (modded) preamp
- ART DST-4 preamp/processor
- Carvin T100 stereo power amp
- Rocktron Guitar Silencer
- Rocktron Multi-Valve processor
- Sabine RT7100 tuner (footswitchable A/B between preamps)
- ART Tube Channel EQ/mic pre/compressor

Sure, it's overkill, but that's the beauty of rack gear. You can have something for every possible situation, and mix components as needed.

[bloodandtears]

i would reiterate the decision between SS or valve... I have two racks.. one valve and one solidstate..

My SS rig:
PODPRO
Marshall Valvestate 40/40


My Valve Rig:
KORG DTR-1000
ADA MP1
TC G-MAJOR
MARSHALL 20/20

ss stuff is lighter and due to the absence of valves some would argue easier/cheaper to maintain. A pod certainly covers all bases...

[PeteL]

Thanks very much for those replies.

In regards to the POD, that is one name I keep hearing over and over wherever I turn. I thnk more for their amp modeling plugin for the PC, but is this rack-mountable unit simple to use?

I'd like something that won't take me months to figure out!

Also, with the Marshall 40/40, does that mean it puts out 40 watts, or combined 40 watts each side for 80watts total power?

Thanks!

[Dreamland_Rebel]

my studio rig is a mesa stiletto and marshall cab.

but live my rig is the Pod xtlive and crate powerblock and who's ever cab i can borrow at the gig. simple yet affective and doesn't take a truck to get it there.

[bloodandtears]

Thanks very much for those replies.

In regards to the POD, that is one name I keep hearing over and over wherever I turn. I thnk more for their amp modeling plugin for the PC, but is this rack-mountable unit simple to use?

I'd like something that won't take me months to figure out!

Also, with the Marshall 40/40, does that mean it puts out 40 watts, or combined 40 watts each side for 80watts total power?

Thanks!

the pod stuff is easy to use.. intuitive dials just like an amp.. thats why its so popular imho..

stereo 40 watts so 40 watts per channel.. the beauty of valvestate is that you do not need to put a load (ie connect a speaker) to each channel unlike valve amps... so like me if you have two mono cabs in your stack you can take the top to rehearsal and both to the gig

[charvelguy]

You may also want to consider a good power conditioner also. Supposed to guard against spikes, RF interference.. keeping your power source consistant so your gear and sound are staying consistant. I used to have alot of problems with RF in some clubs, especially with analog stuff or single coils.
You had to stand in one certain spot for some things-major pain... so I got a power conditioner.. that and had the lightman move his cable and his lights on occasion.
Its similar to having one for your computer, tv, etc. in your home.
There's alot of rack mounted conditioners out there, differing styles, features and price levels to choose from..the Furman rack rider is probably the cheaper of the lot but there are other manufacturers whose brands are just as good. I wanted lights as a feature..so a PL8 is what I got.

So.. a few other components I forgot to mention in my 500.00 or under rack:

Furman PL-8: 50.00
Anvil 6 space rack used-40.00

one thing I added on later, certainly is NOT needed unless you have a noise issue, play at loud volumes and need a gate.
hush 2c-50.00 (these are really cheap now)

Once you start on a rack kick...you'll likely desire to aquire more. I know I match Ryans (Inazone) desire to mix and match and I have alot of various rack components. I bide my time tho and only buy it when it is cheap, but, I also end up with stuff that I may not use in a gig or daily use situation too. Rack components can be alot like pedals in your signal chain.. you have this for that and so forth and they interchange in and out...some get used, some don't. You can always sell it later on.. some of the stuff I have went up in price, some of it dropped.

One preamp I really liked that has had its day and then forgotten is the Boss GX-700. Digital 18 bit, COSM modelers, tuner built in, alot of good, useful effects as well as a decent 4 line capable hamonizer.. all in a single space rack.
Very versatile and cool little unit.

Lastly.. Ryan again is very correct in pointing out that stage space can be an issue. Whereas before with a normal non midi rig, I had no midi floor controller..now I had this pedalboard I needed to have easy access too, plus my wah, pedals, etc. This is kinda why the Boss all in one floor units like the GT-5, GT-6, GT-8 and the Line 6 XT live or even an old Zoom GSP-21 are so popular and also a consideration.. they have everything there..but you have to spend time with the patches and the programs with any of this stuff. You use it.. you'll get to know it inside and out.

Most these units come with an internal battery on the board, just like a motherboard of a computer. If its older than a few years, you better change it out just to be on the safe side otherwise you may end up at a gig with no patches at the worse possible time.

[hippietim]

where do you shop that sells anvil 6-space racks for 40 bucks? i need to shop there.