5150 II or Triple XXX?

[Twisteramps]

I don't think it's a matter of consistency. And yes, I've gigged with a 5150 block letter (had stock tubes, the amp had only been used a handful of times before I got it) and several different recto heads.

Some amps are inherently easier to tweak than others. I've heard guys play fucking BLUES on a rectifier head! But for a lot of guitarists, rectos are harder to dial in. So are Mesa Mark series amps. 5150s are pretty forgiving in that they have a wider range that cuts. It doesn't make them any better, and someone who can dial in a rectifier could compete with them tone-wise. Ty Tabor and his rackmount rectifier had one of the heaviest live sounds I've ever heard, and it would compete with ANYTHING.

I don't know what's worse though - a recto setup to sound muddy as hell, or the few times I've heard 5150s dialled in badly. A 5150 dialled in wrong sounds like an angry bunch of bees in a cardboard tube made of shit.

It's a personal thing. I (and I'm sure most other people in this thread) could make a gig work with any of the amps listed. There are just some things that make us prefer one amp over others.

Pete

[khabibissell]

Well the only I have to add to this is that I've gigged with the following: 6505+, Randall RM50, Mesa Single Recto, Mesa F50, and a Peavey Classic 50. Which amp sounded the best? The Single Rectifier hands down. It always cut through (actually dominated without even trying) the mix in a two guitar situation. It always sounded fat and clear. The 6505+ cut through as well, but has a thinner sound than the Mesa... some might prefer that. The F50 cut really well too, but had a flubby bottom end that I didn't like. I got rid of it because I didn't like the way it felt while playing due to the flubbiness. The Classic 50 was okay, but again sounded a bit thin, and didn't seem to really have the balls to punch through the band. The RM50 that I'm using now sounds sweet (XTC module), but seems to dissappear in the mix unless I have the master and channel volumes close to halfway. It makes me question whether or not the amp truly puts out 50 watts, as the Single Rec destroys it in volume/cut. I should add that I'm not shy with my mids either. They are usually past 12 oclock with whatever amp I'm using.

The only amp I have now is the Randall and I have to say even though the Recto sounds dark, it always found a way to cut through and sounds great in an overall mix. I miss it very much. My nephew has my 6505+ now and when we played together over the summer, I used my Recto. We had a great guitar sound that night! Those two amps mix very well together.

I'm seriously considering a Dual Recto as my next amp purchase.

[Endrik]

The best live mixermen in the buisness (dudes who do Pink Floyd, Genesis, Metallica, Jessica Simpson, AC/DC etc. stadium gigs) will never tell you that they perfer amp X over amp Y but they will tell you that they perfer pro soundtechs to deal with the amps rather than the band members. Why? Because most of the musicians are pretty avarage in producing, mixing, tweaking sounds, arranging songs or whatever, they can write songs and play instruments but they are not the best and the most objective persons to make the whole backage work. There are exceptions of corse.

A lot of times horrible or weird sounding guitar tone (when playing alone) sounds amazing when the whole band is playing.
A lot of motherfuckers suck with the rectos because they dial the sound wich sounds cool if they jam alone. Rectos have tons of low end and low-midrange. The bass guitar's low end and the kick drums are in the low end area, bass guitar's main area is in the low-midrange wich is also the recto's main area. Shitty metal singers are also in that area, good singers are in hi-midrange. Snare is almost in the same area. Cymbals are in very high area where guitar should not be. Guitar and cymbals "fighting" eachother to be audiable is a big no no. It will kill the audience's ears.

In most of the huge gigs, bass guitar's amp EQ settings are FLAT or with a little bit boosted highs. Rectos can sound like ass when some dickwad bass player starts to make his own idiotic EQ settings. You don't need to tweak the bass amp, because the tone comes from the player and the bass guitar, the engineer makes it work in the mix. Whoever says it's not true is a shitty bass player with a crappy bass.

The engineer EQs the kick drums and bass guitar so that they don't cover the same frequencies, this is the most important thing, the other elements fall into right places after that. But when some dude takes his recto and uses too much bass, it screws up the whole mix. You have to tweak it so it covers all the frequencies wich haven't used by the drums, bass, singer, keyboards, and cymbals. Each instrument has its own place in the mix, they don't have to disturb each other. It's like a puzzle, you have all these different pieces wich aren't very cool alone, but when you put them together then the whole picture is amazing.

I'm sure some engineer who does small gigs says he perfers 5150 or something else over recto but TONS of HUGE rock, pop, metal, jazz artists use them all the time when they play on stadiums or in MTV award shows or whatever. They don't have any problems because they have the right people who make the whole thing work. You rarely see 5150 in those gigs or XXX, although Duran Duran uses XXX and they sound damn good.

Mesa gear is also the most commonly used in high budget modern music industry unless you are doing Nashville pop or something like that wich requiers vintage gear.

Also the reason why Boogies including the rectos sound great when playing big chords is the low-mid frequency and the overall low punch. Distortion brings up the highs a lot, that's the reason why a lot of chords suck with electric guitar but because of Boogie's "lowness" they sounds pretty fucking good.

Mesas are a lot looser than most of the modern amps and they cover a lot of frequencies wich is a good and also a bad thing.
Live those frequencies match with a lot of the stuff wich is coming from the other instruments, solution - exellent tweaking by pros.
In studio, the engineers LOVE Mesa gear because of that. A lot of those modern tight amps can sound thin in the recorded mix. They don't cover all the frequencies as well as Mesas. Mesa is looser and "panoramic", Rectos are great because they are modern amps with some vintage characteristics. Engineers love that.
A lot of those new brutal amps wich are tight as hell sound gay when you have recorded it, you have to do many overdubs with other amps to cover the missing frequencies and get the "fattness". With Boogies, you don't have to use any other amp.
For example Mudvayne's albums with Mesas sounded massive and fat as hell, with Randalls the guitars where a lot more thinner.

[siggy14]

Yes a 5150 is a sounds mans dream, why because he doesnt have to do any work. But then again the 5150 is pretty much a one sided, one trick pony.

All i can say is look at all the artists that use recto's. I know so many artists that have 5150's only BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD a recto. I dont know many people that had a recto and went back to a 5150 besides the group atreyu.

Siggy, ask any sound engineer which metal amp they most prefer to set up live and you will get an overwhelming response for the 5150.
I'll stack up my 5150's against a Single or Dual Rectifier any day of the week in a live and loud metal band setting.
I actually prefer the bottom end chunk of a Recitifer over a 5150. In the real world though, you can't play with that much bottom end if you have a kicking bass player. You need MIDRANGE and the 5150 has tons of it. You also need searing highs that are enough to sail over the cymbals and the other high frequencies, especially if you are a lead player. The 5150 is perfect for that scenario.
I would hardly call my post narrow minded. I think the Rectifiers are great amps. They just aren't as consitant sounding as the 5150.
There are plenty of amps out there better than both but we are just discussing the XXX, 5150 and the Rectifier I guess.
I haven't heard a Triple X that I have liked live. I also haven't heard a JSX that I have liked live. It probably has alot to do with the way the amps were set up live.

[khabibissell]

A Recto is a strange beast. I don't think it sounds all that inspiring by itself, but in a band situation, its amazing how well it fills out a mix. People are always saying that they don't cut through in a band situation, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

The 5150/6505 is a great amp as well. Then again if you are looking for a hot rodded Marshall type tone, you could always pick up a used Soldano Avenger.

[jgcable]

I think the reason more players use Recto's instead of 5150's is because a 5150 is immediately associated with EVH. The Recto isn't. I am sure its a marketing and endorsement thing and not a tone thing.

[Chad]

Good point, however, that could change with the 6505 name change.

[kmanick]

shit I wish I could afford one of each(got the 5150 need the dual Recto )

[siggy14]

Actualy i think it has to do with a few reasons, one the 5150 is a well built amp, however the build on a mesa just blows it away. With my 5150's i always felt like i had to baby them, exspecialy changing pre-amp tubes.

Second i think more people associate the 5150 with euro, sweedish, norweigian, whatever you want to call it metal, because they mostly use them.

Third, Recto just has a great tone that besides modeling amps, no other amp can copy. I have heard the Kranks come close though but more buzzy. But when it comes down to it the 5150 is just a hot rodded marshall with a shit load of gain. The recto has its own unique voice and tone to die for, you can make it sound great by its self or in a band situation.

I think the reason more players use Recto's instead of 5150's is because a 5150 is immediately associated with EVH. The Recto isn't. I am sure its a marketing and endorsement thing and not a tone thing.

[Twisteramps]

I think the reason more players use Recto's instead of 5150's is because a 5150 is immediately associated with EVH. The Recto isn't. I am sure its a marketing and endorsement thing and not a tone thing.

Rectos are pretty tarnished with the 'nu-metal' association too though. Really, when I hear a 5150 mentioned I immediately think metal, not EVH. I like 5150s, but thought his tone was shit when he went away from the marshalls.

Pete

[Fragle]

" With my 5150's i always felt like i had to baby them, exspecialy changing pre-amp tubes."
whoa, never heared THAT before. i mean, i "baby" all of my gear because it cost me a lot of cash, but i'm not *super* careful, and well....the 5150 has NOT given me any trouble at all, despite of quite a few gigs incl. roadies carrying the stuff....and we all know you can't trust a roadie

[VitaminG]

Rectos are pretty tarnished with the 'nu-metal' association too though. Really, when I hear a 5150 mentioned I immediately think metal, not EVH. I like 5150s, but thought his tone was shit when he went away from the marshalls.

Pete

There have already been a few comments in this thread associating Rectos with downtuned floggers. That's why I wanted to stress before the none of the bands I saw last weekend were playing gnu-metal and a lot of them played through Rectos.

I agree too that EVH is the last thing I think of when I think of 5150s. Most bands I've seen using them have played very un-VH-like music.

[RacerX]

" With my 5150's i always felt like i had to baby them, exspecialy changing pre-amp tubes."
whoa, never heared THAT before. i mean, i "baby" all of my gear because it cost me a lot of cash, but i'm not *super* careful, and well....the 5150 has NOT given me any trouble at all, despite of quite a few gigs incl. roadies carrying the stuff....

Cue Cleveland John and his well-worn story of the crashed Mustang and the 5150 flying down the road....

[Inearthed]

I have both a rackmount recto and a 5150.. They're both great amps, but totally different realms. EQing outlook is completely different as well on both amps. I have the bass on my rackmount recto dialed barely above 0, unless I'm using Marshall cabinets, where I actually have to turn it up a hair higher to get a bit more low end umph.

My biggest gripe with my rackmount recto is the loop. I can't put anything in there for any lead effects simply because it sounds like shit the moment I flip the loop on. Argh.

Cue Cleveland John and his well-worn story of the crashed Mustang and the 5150 flying down the road....

I love that story.

[Endrik]

Third, Recto just has a great tone that besides modeling amps, no other amp can copy. I have heard the Kranks come close though but more buzzy. But when it comes down to it the 5150 is just a hot rodded marshall with a shit load of gain. The recto has its own unique voice and tone to die for, you can make it sound great by its self or in a band situation.

well, Krap doesn't sound like Recto at all, the only thing that's close to Recto is Diezel.