SLO looks fairly simple inside

[Twisteramps]

"Errgh, you'd rather see PCB mounted pots, PCB mounted tube sockets and small capacitors? I guess I'm more a vintage amp kinda guy... but again, it's all about how it sounds, not just how it looks. "

Pete, no need to ridicule it here. But no, I am NOT 'a vintage amp kinda guy', that's for sure. I appriciate improvements and good technology. P-t-p for the sake of 'vintage' thingy I am not interested in, it does not sound any better to me (never mind production consistency). I will take a well-designed and well-executed modern amp over a vintage one any day. Now am I going to be slaughtered here?

Wasn't ridiculing it, if I was why would I mention how the bottom line is how it sounds? It's not an improvement though, unless you consider ease of manufacture and cheaper production an improvement. Few things to think about on a PCB amp vs a handwired (PTP isn't a soldano, it's when an amp has all the components wired to each other without a tagboard - a Matchless is true PTP, and they look like a rat's nest to me IMHO).

Brett was spot on regarding his info on the total PCB vs handwired construction. Ease of serviceability is much better on an amp wired the SLO way. I could change out a bad Pot or tube socket much easier than with a PCB amp - and you're always in danger on a PCB amp of lifting traces when you get it hot.



Here's a pic of an 18 watt Marshall I built - this is even more vintage than the SLO. Yeah, it's simple, but it would be even easier to service than the SLO because you don't have to worry about PCB traces lifting up when you are changing components. An amp like this or the SLO that needed a pot or jack replaced would be many times easier to fix than a PCB mounted part. On the PCB amp you'd need to take 1/2 the amp apart: On the others you'd just unsolder the wires to the bad component, loosen the retaining nut and replace the part. Much simpler IMHO.

Again, what matters is the sound. But a vintage Marshall or amp built 'old school' will likely outlast a PCB amp given the same set of circumstances. Just my opinion.

Pete

[Cleveland Metal]

that's a Bogner alright!!

Yeah, BOGNER printed all over it sorta gives it away...

[atomic charvel guy]

are they all 6 layer pcb? i used to manufacture memory and nowadays it's 6 layer or more or you're out.

[slo100]

I recently had to replace a jack on this:



You guessed it, board mounted components. It took exponentially longer to get to the jack than to fix it!

The worst part of this was actually the security allen bolt with the pin just under the phantom power switch. I had to drill out an allen wrench to use to get it out. Many curse words were uttered that afternoon.

[atomic charvel guy]

lol, that's a good one bret-lol, i needed a good laugh this morning. i was muttering some curses yesterday only fairly loudly.

[akoch]

Guys, here was my post:
"Looks like a 'proper' amp to me Personally, this is what I would rather see inside - good quality PCBs, direct mounted pots, minimum p-t-p wiring, short runs, high quality components."

Not PCB-mounted pots or sockets, 'direct' meaning on the chassis with neat ptp for the power components as far as I am concerned. This was Twiseramp who mentioned the sockets etc on PCB. For the rest of the circuit (well, most of it), I see the PCB to be an advantage. Realistically, will you implement a MIDI-switching, or any other logic, or more complex components by handwiring them? Common. That's why I liked what I saw inside the VHT and Bogner.

[Twisteramps]

Thought you were commenting on the bogner, as it was above your post I believe. Anyways, the bogner has everything mounted on the PCBs, which gives me a bit of the shakes. But if it's reliable for the owner and gives the tones he wants, that's fine. I haven't given my VHT a real close look yet, but I think it's between the SLO and bogner as far as what's on the PCB and what's mounted to the chassis.

Keep in mind too that old school amps like the 18 watt I posted take a lot more skill in assembly than a PCB amp that has everything mounted to it. You have to train someone a lot more to build that way than to stuff a PCB with parts and screw it into a chassis. That's why I sometimes cringe at the price of PCB amps - there just isn't as much labor/cost involved IMHO as a really nice hand wired amp. Look at a roccaforte for instance (www.roccaforteamps.com) and compare that wiring job to the bogner in this thread.

Pete

[Fretburner]

The Roccaforte's are laid out very nice and the craftsmanship is top notch that can see although that type of amp is not my cup of tea but to a guy that wants that type of sound and the way it is built more power to you!

My 1994 Bogner has never been serviced and is built like a tank. It even has the original tubes in it from 94! lol and still sounds killer.

Sure there's more labor in the build of a PTP wired amp but that does not make them sound any better right Pete?

If most player's like myself take good care of an amp regardless of how they are built they shouldn't have too many issues if any at all. I never have had the shakes about these types of amps.

[sonofspy]

IMHO that depends on the PCB. Some get brittle with age and snap
w/out warning. PTP is inherently stronger as a design.


YMMV

Son Of Spy

[Twisteramps]

Bogner makes good stuff. What causes trouble on a PCB amp in my opinion is when you have tubes mounted to the PCB. Why? Well, tubes get hot. And where do you think that heat goes? Into the PCB. That's also why I don't like amps that hang the tubes upside down - because heat rises.

Pete

[Fretburner]

Pcb Vs: Ptp

Very True!

Bogner makes good stuff. What causes trouble on a PCB amp in my opinion is when you have tubes mounted to the PCB. Why? Well, tubes get hot. And where do you think that heat goes? Into the PCB. That's also why I don't like amps that hang the tubes upside down - because heat rises.

Pete

[Shawn Lutz]

Simplicity in design in my opinion is a major plus. Theres not much to a single channel JMP/JCM800 2203/4 but they are great sounding amps. The SLO is build with the best components (military grade I believe) so reliability is top notch.

I' may or may not be right in thinking this but I feel whenever you cram components in a chassis to increase channels or fill it with options to try to appease every players style or tastes then you lose something. I think there are tradeoffs for the worse with most 3 or 4 channels amps. In order to get more channels and options you half bake them so to speak. I'd rather have one great channel than 3 pretty good ones. I'd rather use 3 separate amps that each do one thing perfectly than use a 3 channel amp that only doens one channel so-so I also think thats why your seeing Soladano, Splawn and VHT etc dumbing down their newer models and focusing on building an amp that does one thing extremely well.

My 101B is the only 3 channel amp that I own, it looks fairly complex internally, very well built but are all 3 channels supreme? No way!

Instead of wanting a single amp to does 2203 dirt, Fender Clean and VHT lead tone why not just use a 2203, a fender and a Deliverance instead one amp than wond do any of the 3 as good

[akoch]

Shawn, you will be always seeing people liking simplicity and 'easy' aspect of things, and others looking for more. You will always have ACDC, and Deam Theater. This is the question with no right/wrong answer. Being it tone, music, style, engineering etc.

[lynchfan6]

But in keeping with the original idea of this post,,,,,,the SLO100 has simply lusciously amazing overdrive and response,,,,with no huge surprises under the hood. It is one "benchmark" amp of all time.....built with only the finest components available. Gotta love it......give it its due respect,,,no matter what amp you personally favor for your style.