JCM 2000 Haters

[DonP]

I've owned my DSL100 1/2 stack since 1998. No issues, been very happy with it. It works for me and that's all that matters.

[jgcable]

Absolutely. The amber channel is very close to both my 2203 RI and our other guitarist's 1982 2203 sound.

I agree too. I have had both and they do sound very similar. Not exact... but similar enough to fool most anybody.

[El_Kabong]

They have sent back more DSL's because they probably sell a ton more of them and most of those are sold to kids who don't know how to care for a tube amp.

No, these were sent back straight out of the box.

[Cleveland Metal]

Could you describe, what is the differnce you are finding? Admittedly, mine is a TSL. And I had had the 2204 for 15+ years. The amber channel gain between 1-5 (especially around 4...4.5) is identical to the 2204 sound and gain structure. Above 5 - yes, it is different: more compressed and more saturation, slightly suppressed presence (but slightly, you actuallly get more variation between different 2204s from different years). But the 2204 was never able to go to that territory without a pedal.

So what's your take on it?

What I'm finding is that I enjoyed playing my 800s, they felt alive.

The DSLs I have had here and played many times are lifelessly dead sounding to my ears, and are far from inspiring to play. The one I had here to play with at length for a few weeks inspired me to ebay it as soon as I could before it did what my other post 800 production (4100s, EL34 100/100, JMP-1) Marshall stuff did and that was fail from cold solder joints.

I just couldn't get a sound I liked out of it without going to the clean channel and using a distortion pedal. I mean, if it was a cheap amp, I'd understand, but it is a pretty expensive unit. I'd highly recommend to look at MESA or even a Vetta before one of these. Even tho I personally can't get good tones from a MESA, I will say they're decently made amps and others do well with them.

My friend bought one against my advice. The first two he got quit working pretty quickly and were replaced by GC. The third one worked for a few months and quit. He fixed it and sold it.

I guess if you like the sound it has, that's good as they are a staple item on stages everywhere sorta. I just can't take them.

[akoch]

'Lifeless' - don't know, it is probably very subjective.

"I'd highly recommend to look at MESA" - I had a few, and still have the Mark IV. And I like the Mark (did not like the Recto's at all), but I can't say that it sounds 'better' than the TSL. Different - yes. Given a tough choice between them, I'd take the TSL. All IMHO of course.

[siggy14]

OK I need to step in here and say things.

First, I love the tone from DSL and TSL's, great for rock and hard rock, metal not really. I have gone through 3 DSL's, 2 TSL's and one DSL 401 because I loved the tone i got out of these amps.

But I am a CET (certified electronic Technician) and i have pulled apart about 3 of JCM2000's, why because they all eventually crapped out on me. I eventually sold the others before they did too.

Anyway, here is the skinny, first you are wrong Jgcable about them selling, actually when you compare Mesa Boogie to Marshall in the last ten years, mesa rec's have out sold All the Marshall's combined probaly by about 10 to 1. With that being said less Mesa's need repair then Marshalls on any given year. Mesa's are built like tanks, Marshalls have gone cheap and it is sad, maybe has something to do with them being an english company and import taxes or something!

Problem with Marshalls is thin crappy PCB's, bad sodder joints and just poor contrustion. Take apart any of the JCM2000 Series and you will see what I mean, ask any Amp tech, and they will tell you the same. Now i do know a few Die hard Marshall guys that are techs and will swear by them till the end.

With that being said, I am really hoping the JVM is alot better, I was hoping Marshall got a good kick in the ass and got there crap together, but i am hearing mixed reports so we will have to see.

Now so you dont think I am biased, I have been spending alot of time on the grail tone forum (mesa boogie) and it seems alot of the new mesa boogies are starting to suffer too.

Mesa has kind of fallen out of favor with the public and you are starting to see alot of bands go back to classic marshalls, or orange or any hot rodded marshall type amp. With that Mesa is not selling like it use too, and they havent raised the prices in over 5 years on a dual rec. Probaly with inflation they should have upped the price, but because they are not selling as well they do not want too.

It is sad, but both Marshall and sounds like mesa now really need to get there asses back in shape. With mesa, the lone star and the stiletto II are great amps that are what people are looking for these days, however mesa keeps putting so much time into there flag ship recto series. Well here is a hint mesa, people are moving away from them, so keep a few different recto models but move on to what the public wants and concentrait on that and get back to building great amps.

As for me, for my marshall sound, I have a great amp in my bogner XTC, built like a freaking tank and sounds better then any marshall I have ever owned.

For my mesa, i have a tremoverb, rackmount recto and my Very early dual recto 2 channel, all three are when mesa built them like freaking tanks, pure hand wiriing on the pots, no PCB mounted on them, and quality PCB boards on the rest of the amp.

For now I will stick with these amps, maybe get rid of one of the Mesa's as i dont need three, but I got some great amps that are reliable and sound great.

They have sent back more DSL's because they probably sell a ton more of them and most of those are sold to kids who don't know how to care for a tube amp.

[siggy14]

I should clear up, it seems the new mesa's that are having problems are the Roadkings and roadsters, which is typical with a new amp. I have also heard a few people with problems with the ACE. The dual and Triple rec's seem to still be built like a tank.

[chmizell]

On the TSL / 2204 comparison....you both can be right! Gotta understand that there were design changes from the JMP's and the early 80's than later ones. I think one of those major changes has to do with the number of electrlytic capacitors. Anyway those changes resulted in later JCM 800's sounding thinner than earlier ones, especially when cranked. I had a Guitar Center commemorative 2203 that sounded thinner and less punchy than an old '82 2203 used to check out all the time. I bought that thing based on the old one I missed out on and was pretty dissapointed. So not all 800's are created equal!

[Racerx2k]

I dig the DSLs, but haven't gotten a tone I like out of a TSL.

[horns666]

Try the DSL 401. Tone coffin, unless hooked up to something else with a closed back. Unreliable as hell. That was money pissed away. YMMV. Just my opinion. Tone is subjective. I'm sure I've heard things through DSL's & TSL's that I've liked, but not with me playing through it.

My 100 watt Marshall JCM 2000 DSL was the biggest piece of worthless shit I've ever had the dishonor of owning...I got it really cheap! Clevo-ohn and I couldn't dump it fast enough, and got much more than I had into it..so it worked out great!

Then we heard a friend in a band with one, they other guy has a Bogner.We just felt sorry for him. But not as much as he or his band did.

I don't care for Rectos..but I'd take it over the DSL/TSL anyday..

IMO The last "cool"Marshall "head" was the '92 Blue Anniversary..that amp sound good...or a 2210!!

The new JVM is OK..needs a noise gate!!! At least it sounds tight..with enough, girth, gain to work with without depending on a 50-100 dollar stomp box.

If I must rely on a stomp and Marshall for my tone..I'll take a old Marshall JMP , or 2203 anyday!!

I DON'T like the TSL/DSL whatsoever , but If you like 'em..cool!

I'll keep what I got..

[horns666]

I never forget whe I put the DSL against John's VHT2150/CAE+..fuck me!!!:ROTF:

Not a chance..it was a slaughter. Like watching a Pittbull VS a Chihuahua..it was pathetic!

Not the case with the Uberschall..that sounded great together.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

i think my DSL sounds pretty good, but i am selling it to get the Vintage Modern.

[horns666]

i think my DSL sounds pretty good, but i am selling it to get the Vintage Modern.

YES dude..you definitely should. When you have the JVM for a month or so..Tell me how much you want the DSL back!

The JVM is cool..get a good noise gate..it's required!!

Just like my Uber..

[Dreamland_Rebel]

not the JVM.
the Vintage Modern (2466) with matching cab.

[horns666]

not the JVM.
the Vintage Modern (2466) with matching cab.

Haven't tried one..I tried the JVM for over an hour..it was workable..I enjoyed playing it. Much improvement "tone wise" than the over-lame sounding DSL/TSL..IMO!

Good luck tho..