Tube Saturation - Low Volumes

[T@rgetDrone]

I'm guessing this topic has rolled down the road more than once but I didn't see it anywhere without digging w/a shovel. At least not w/specifics. I'd like to get input from those who have more experience so the less experienced guys/gals can get some pointers. I guess I'm in the middle - somewhere towards the level of "I know just enough to be dangerous."

Some or a lot of us have the need to play our tube amps at lower volumes from time to time (or most of the time). I'm still on the end of year one of a three year recovery process from massive surgery so this also includes me. How would you best suggest, in general or specifically (feel free to elaborate), to achieve decent to high saturation at low to moderate listening levels.

I'll be the guinea pig. Here's what I do w/o an attenuator/power brake.

1) Turn input signal of preamp up until just short of clipping. (my preamp has one tube in it). Preamp output volume at Zero for now.

2) Turn tube amp volume up to 7/8 +/-.

3) SLOWLY turn up preamp output volume until I reach desired listening level.

I guess I'm using the preamp as the choke off. This seems to work pretty well for me most of the time. But if there's a better way I'm all ears. There's prolly a few others that might be interested too.

How do you or how would you do it?

[Cleveland Metal]

Well, that process wouldn't saturate the power tubes. I always run my power amp full out, the preamp outs wherever they sound good and use my Intellifex output to control the send to the power amp. But that isnt gonna saturate the power tubes. That, would require high volume to hit the tubes hard.

If you want to saturate at low volume, your only real alternative is to use a one of the misc "power soak" type devices like the Hot Plate, the Palmer speaker simulator, the Groove tubes/Marshal "speaker emulator", etc.

[NunoSoWylde]

Yeah, check out the Weber Mass Attenuator...it's gotten pretty good reviews and it is priced reasonably.

[straycat]

I have a Marshall power brake and run my 100 watt head around 8 the tone is very good and the volume is quite acceptable.

[danastas]

A lot depends on the amp too. For instance, an SLO with a master volume isn't really built for tube saturation. Some amps don't saturate appreciably as your turn them up. Yes, of course an SLO100 will sound better at 6 or7 , but it's not a huge difference than it is at 3. I think the hump for the SLO is 2 1/2.

[straycat]

+1

[Cleveland Metal]

I always thought the SLO's sounded better at concert volume. I'd played a lot of them in shops and thought they were sorta fizzy at low volumes (great amp nonetheless) but hearing them in an arena (Iced Earth) was impressive. Funny thing was when he was fiddling with it low volume in the arena, I was like "ok, ho hum" hearing it. But then when it went to concert/band level it was amazing. Damn it sounded good.

[jgcable]

I always thought the SLO's sounded better at concert volume. I'd played a lot of them in shops and thought they were sorta fizzy at low volumes (great amp nonetheless) but hearing them in an arena (Iced Earth) was impressive. Funny thing was when he was fiddling with it low volume in the arena, I was like "ok, ho hum" hearing it. But then when it went to concert/band level it was amazing. Damn it sounded good.

The SLO absolutely sounds better at concert volume. Amazing actually.

For bedroom volume total tube saturation tone.. get a modeling amp.
That is exactly what they are made for.

[Eric_kv2]

I would use a distortion pedal like a maxon OD-9 or an ibanez tube screamer in conjuction with the amp. I turn down the gain on the pedal and turn the volume and tone up all the way on it. It usually adds more presence and tightens the low end as well. Certain amps like Engls don't need a pedal since they have a lot of saturated distortion and can sound good at bedroom levels. Changing preamp tubes with more higher gain ones like tung sols can achieve this as well. Thats for preamp distortion.

For power amp tube break up, I'd get an attenuator like a THD hot plate. Some amps have those built into them as well.

When I hear the word "Saturation", the first thing that comes to mind is a wet or liquid like preamp distortion sound.

[Robert Burns]

Interesting...today i took my marshall 50 watt DSL over to my brother in
laws...to try and see how his (limited #66 of #200 30th anniversary DSL100 watt)
sounded.
Funny that through the Boss GT-8 his 100 was at 7 on the volume,
yet my 50 watt DSL on the right channel was at 4! Guess which one
was louder? 50! We ended up balancing it out...but it was weird.
Both set the same...boost buttons...bass contour...everything.
He was so impressed with the 50's performance he bought it off me!
$950 for a used DSL is better than i would ever get for it through
a trade in or outright sale probably. So now im about to go Stereo
rack tube baby! Mesa 50/50 or 20/20 or VHT 50 maybe? Always
exciting to shift gears and go in another direction.

[El_Kabong]

I have tried *everything* save for the guy on eBay, who advertizes 1 watt, tube, single spaced SLO sounding amps for at home use. The only solution which I found acceptable, is the Xotic BB pre-amp pedal. It gets *your* amp tone at TV volume, minus some power tube girth. It does not add a a seperate OD tone.

[T@rgetDrone]

Thanks a schnitt load for the feedback and info. I'm just not all that big on the hassles of an attenuator setup. I know they are great tools but.... That said, I took some advice from y'all and am looking into a couple of options. I'm looking into the Weber Stereo Mass 100Wx2. I'm more than somewhat interested in trying one out. I have a bit more interest in the Xotic pedals option. Of these two options, what are your recommendations? Weber or Xotic. Which Xotic for my main rig, AC or BB?

The Rig:
MB Stereo 2:50; 6L6's presently installed
Rocktron Prophesy II Preamp/Processor
Two 2x12 modded baltic birch cabs; each wired w/a mono/stereo switch.

Thanks again for the input!

[Cleveland Metal]

Personally, these days I just get my tone through the preamp and try not to rely on tube saturation to get it. I used to like the saturation (still do really) but playing different club sizes was driving me nuts getting my tone since the amp's volume was changing all the time. At least now I overkill on the tube power amp (VHT2150) and get the tone from the preamp.

Other option to regain control, was to run it like the classic VanHalen-ish setup.

Preamp>tube power amp>Attenuator (to get controlled saturation)>Solid state power amp (to amplify what the attenuator provides as a stable signal)

That is just to much to run for me right now.

[kmanick]

the 5150 combos are very similar to the slos in the respect that they sound much much beterr once the post gain is up past 4. (that is really freaking loud though) so I run mine thru a THD hotplate and it sounds great. Attenuators are pretty easy to work with , I'd check one out.

[SnakePlissken]

Go find yourself a Power Scaling amp to try out.