JVM or JSX head?

[Robotechnology]

By the way... I'll say this... I am NOT a Marshall guy but, I do like the Marshall JVM. Best Marshall they make. Some of the modes ALMOST have a Mesa-ish saturation going on. Yes a Hot Rodded JCM800 sounds great for rhythms. Yes the SL-X 100 I had sounded killer for rhythms and passable for leads but, the JVM is the best voiced Marshall ever made for my tastes. Best thing for you to do is what was suggested even by yourself... try them both out. I have no opinion on the EVH III because I've yet to play one.

[levantin]

The music styles I like to play ranges from Texas blues rock (SRV), 80's thrash metal, 90's metal, 80's/90's hard rock, some nu-metal, prog metal, Finnish modern metal (CoB, Norther) with a bit of classic 70's rock thrown in. My main influences are SRV, Zakk, Satch, Gary Moore, Lynch, Ace, Page, Alexi, Roope Latvala, Eric Johnson, Joe Perry, Hammet, Hetfield, Lifeson, Petrucci, Dime R.I.P., Mustaine, and some guy named Randy

That's a pretty wide spectrum of tones. If I were you I'd probably stick with modelling amps.

I heard the JVM and thought it sounded pretty good, but I didn't play it. I do not like the gain structure of the TSL/DSL whatsoever..way too thin, farty, saggy, and not warm or smooth at all, it sounds very "NU".

I haven't tried the JSX, but I tried out the JVM with pretty high expectations. I think it sounded like Bill Z's description of the TSL/DSL. Too much bite, not enough thump. But that's probably just me, I don't mix well with Marshalls.

If you can get to a dealer with a wide range in stock, go try 'em out.

Happy hunting!

[horns666]

I don't want to be too harsh, as I know everybody has a different perception of what good tone is. Besides... even a "toneless" amp in capable hands can sound amazing. I saw a vid of Satch playing on some early morning news program. He was playing through one of those Ibanez toneblaster 10 watt combos and a few stomps and he sounded exactly like Satch (I've seen him live about three times). I would've thought he was plugged into an expensive amp of some sort if I didn't know any better. I think that the player's perception of his tone at any given time translates into his playing, making things sound good or bad. That is taking into account that the guy playing knows how to get the best possible tone he can out of the amp he is using. I think the guy on the video knew how to dial his JSX in and could play pretty well, so I think that is a fair representation as to how the amp sounds.

Yep, I've tried Tung Sol, JJ, EH, Sovtek LPS, and Groove Tubes in there (whatever they really are).

You're right as rain Steve..the player's touch is most of his tone. I feel like that about Jeff Loomis and Rectos. I can not get along with them, but he shure does. I seen him with about 5 different rigs live..he alawys sounded best with his Recto...I can hear every little nuance of his playing when he uses it.

[cbope]

Still haven't been able to audition the amps, but I'm leaning strongly towards the JVM now. I've been wanting a really good excuse to get a GT8 processor, and after reading about using a GT8 to control the JVM via midi, it just about nailed it for me. I also like the flexibility of the 4 channels and 3 modes per channel. The flexibility and programmability of the JVM foot pedal is also good. Unless the JVM sounds like shit vs. the JSX, I will be going with the JVM. I will try to locate the amps for a demo in the next few days. Thanks for all the feedback so far.

[horns666]

Still haven't been able to audition the amps, but I'm leaning strongly towards the JVM now. I've been wanting a really good excuse to get a GT8 processor, and after reading about using a GT8 to control the JVM via midi, it just about nailed it for me. I also like the flexibility of the 4 channels and 3 modes per channel. The flexibility and programmability of the JVM foot pedal is also good. Unless the JVM sounds like shit vs. the JSX, I will be going with the JVM. I will try to locate the amps for a demo in the next few days. Thanks for all the feedback so far.

That's most important..try both sumbitches. You'll KNOW what to go with! I wouln't worry too much about the GT8 thing. The amp's tone should be your main concern..I think.

[Fretburner]

My vote is for the JVM. I love mine. Shawn mentioned the EVH5150 III I'm kind of curious about this head too but for 2K it doesn't come close to the features the Marshall has.

The JVM's 4 channels all sound AWESOME. Having 3 modes per channel that are programable, and having midi to switch effects with the certain channels or programming the effects loop in or out for any channel is the ballz.

Anyway...Good luck with your decision.

[horns666]

Fretburner..dude Congrats! ..Nice, I'm glad you're diggin' it!! ..I will try one on my next visit to GC..I must!..Nice gear bro..like the cab too! I heard some dude playing one breifly and it caught my attention..so it had to be "cool".

I cut and paste this long winded ..fuggin' post..because I guess it applies here to..so..here it is.

Wassup Nick and Steve, and fellow brosephs in search of tone. Let me share my thoughts, because I have nothing else to do..I nailed Soilwork's "Chain heart machine" tone, dead on balls w/ my Marshall rig today..ironically there's a early Marshall 9200/ JMP-1 in the studio pic on that release. That was my introduction to SW and still my favorite SW album. That style and tone is ingrained into my liver. So I dialed that very tone and jammed with my son today. We were doin' random riffs here and there from that material. Then listened to that cd again and the tone is plain as day. It's not really "Heavy" tone like my Uber, or 5150, Recto and such. But I know I could get a heavier SW tone with the JSX. I don't know about the leads, that's where that Marshall is most blatant..it's right there, but I can't see a problem there!

My Uber doesn't sound like that at all, it's too "thick". The gain and girth of that head is untouchable. I've read you can get that "girth" from a recto or 5150, I owned all three...NOPE! Not the the way I dial and play it. I owned some serious bass rigs. I know the roles on where bass and guitar should be. I love a very chunky low end..but some guys are just pushing too much low freqs, even though it may still seem "tight" it often gets pretty bloated in the mix..I discovered that on my own and other players. Straining speakers to move freqs that you can feel but not heard...pushing those poor 12's into flatulent zones. Alot of us been there!!

They make active sub cabs for that..so you don't have to stress your speakers to concentrate on getting a natural , edgy tone that "cuts"..somewhat Of a Bi-amped rig..that Fear Factory dude udes that. He always used Masrshall 800's back in the day and always had a pretty nice "chug"..long ago. Maybe something to investigate for some.

Back on track..The JSX is like a perfect blend of my Marshall and Uber. I can't describe it any other way. It sounds and responds like a hybrid of both amps . The Uber has more "girth" than the JSX, XXX or 5150 but that's OK. I'm actually cutting the lows on the Bognger, I keep that approx 11 O' Clock, that's more than plenty. Which is prolly very comaparible to those amps with the low and resonance pushed up...which always seems perfect for me.

Why am I rambling..because I'm really condering a JSX. I have MY perfect "Marshall" tone and my "beast". I would LOVE to hear a Deizel or Framus. The best comparison scenario would be actual OWNERS that know how to get the most from those amps. I cultivated the heaviest tone I possibly could from my Bogner. You really can't go by a person's judgement who just basically "tinkered" with said amp. You need a OWNER who became one with it, with much foreplay and dry humping..Then we all carnk 'em up, and thrash over some hard kickin' blast beats..Think about it, That is the ONLY way to compare a amp's Brutality...IMO!!

I love Jeff Loomis' tone best when he plays his Recto..but his tone is not as heavy as Jon Schaffer's. I Love Jeff's playing much more, Jon's basically a rythm dude (Hetfield on steroids)..and I would love to hear Jeff with a Uber ..and yes, I told him that!

The Uber's eq section is extremely interactive, once you get used to that it's pretty easy to dial in whatever you want..you can't make it sound "bad"..I've tried..

That is not the case with Rectos or 5150s..you definitely can make those amps sound "bad..and many local people certainly do..There is a Preist tribute band here that use 5150s and you would absolutely cringe if you heard their tone..you have to waite for the vocals to see what song they're playing..because it's so fuzzed out...it is that fucked up!

I can dail in a JSX in minutes and be off and shredding in sonic bliss..and I like that..I tried to make the "ultra" chanel sound like shit..and it's still very passable to me.

he JSX is the only head I've played in a VERY long time I would consider buying. It conveys everything I throw at it very nicely..It's the only amp in years that is fucking with my head. That is something that does not happen often..could it be GAS, it's the closest thing I've ever had to it I guess.!

I love a great "Marshall" tone and always have..and had many Marshalls to get my favorute one. If I didn't have this I may consider the JVM if I liked it..it sounded pretty good when I heard it. But I have both "Marshall" and "Heavy" pretty well covered.

I bought a DSL100 that was about a month old, it still smelled new, when they just came out. Some dude needed money, and I snagged it for dirt..John and I tried like two mad scientist to get "life" from that thing..it was not to our standard of coolness whatsover , not even close..to Ebay it went, and got a FREE new 1960a Marshall cab out of that deal!

So..that's a story written of sheer boredom..

Happy Huntin,

Buy what you like..you're the one that matters. I heard players like Reb Beach and Doug Aldrich get by peachy with a stomp and a DSL. Those fuckers are inhuman..they could shred balls through anything..with their magic fingers.


Bill Z Bub

[cbope]

Gonna go with a JVM. The midi switching together with the 3 modes per channel nailed it. I didn't get to try a JSX, but I think the JVM fits my needs better anyway and sounds KILLER. There's not a bad channel or mode in it, I find it very versatile. I'd have to say it's Marshall-y in a good way and un-Marshall-y in a good way. Go figure...

[Dreamland_Rebel]

check out the vintage modern. i just demo'd on in GC and it sounded incredible.

[kmanick]

I need to go check out one of them there new fangled JVM whatcha ma didies and see how I like it.
I've had my JSX for a couple of months now and have it dialed in pretty well (IE: I'm not constantly tweaking it anymore)
I started using an MXR 10 band EQ in the loop a while ago, with very
subtle boosts and cuts (boost low mids /cut upper mids and some treble
freqs) and I've got it sounding pretty badass now.
I also use a hotplate with mine so I can crank the master past 5 (which
seems to really "thicken" the sound of this amp) and get the channel
volumes up past 5 (which seems to let you turn the gain down and not
lose any sustain)
this way I don't get the overly compressed tone that some people
complain about with this amp and low notes on my 7 string are nice and
sharp and clear.

Obviously not an amp for everyone, (I mean what is?)
but now that I've had it for a while I'm even happier with it than I was when I first got it.
It does metal , no problem, but I think this amp really shines on the crunch
channel for fusiony stuff. I can get Guthrie Govan /Greg Howe/ Vinnie
Moore/Keiko Loureiro (who you need to check out if you've never heard of
him) types of sounds out of the Crunch channel really easily.

When I'm playing Metal I still fire up my 5150 all the time.
It's got it's own voice that I happen to really like.

Good Luck with the JVM let us know what you think once you get it.

[cbope]

check out the vintage modern. i just demo'd on in GC and it sounded incredible.

The VM seems pretty cool, but I don't know if it fits my needs as well as the JVM. In particular, I don't believe it can come near the JVM when it comes to gain. The GC I was at to check out the JVM didn't have any VM's to demo, so I couldn't compare them. Also, I'm a bit of a tweak freak, and, well... the JVM just has more knobs!

Seriously though, I've been chatting with my local music shop and they can get me a JVM in about a week. As soon as I get the refund on my deceased Vox which can't be fixed, I'll go place my order.

[patricef]

I tried the JSX a long time ago so I can't say much about it. But I tried the JVM 2 weeks ago, IMHO:
* It does pretty well a whole range of Marshall amps and a little bit more, but that's about it. If you like (modded) Marshall tone (Moore, Lynch, Ace, Page, Zaak), go for it, if you want versatility forget about it.
* It has too much gain on channel 4 and starts quickly to sound buzzy for my taste, but at the same time it cannot compete with a good high gain amp for lead tones
* Quality is questionnable (4 channels+ midi+reverb) for 1400€ (Europe) ?
* Some people already had issues with switching, I would let Marshall solve the teething issues before I buy one, especially if this serie is going to replace the JCM2000.

I tried it with a Les Paul and I got really cool and "classic" tones out of it, but then I had the feeling I would get bored quickly after a while with it. May be I'll get a used one when they'll be all over the place.

[cbope]

I tried the JSX a long time ago so I can't say much about it. But I tried the JVM 2 weeks ago, IMHO:
* It does pretty well a whole range of Marshall amps and a little bit more, but that's about it. If you like (modded) Marshall tone (Moore, Lynch, Ace, Page, Zaak), go for it, if you want versatility forget about it.
* It has too much gain on channel 4 and starts quickly to sound buzzy for my taste, but at the same time it cannot compete with a good high gain amp for lead tones
* Quality is questionnable (4 channels+ midi+reverb) for 1400€ (Europe) ?
* Some people already had issues with switching, I would let Marshall solve the teething issues before I buy one, especially if this serie is going to replace the JCM2000.

I tried it with a Les Paul and I got really cool and "classic" tones out of it, but then I had the feeling I would get bored quickly after a while with it. May be I'll get a used one when they'll be all over the place.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'd have to disagree with most of what you wrote. I feel it's pretty versatile. Not on the level of a Vetta of course, but for an all-tube guitar amp it is pretty good. I don't see what your reference to price vs. quality is all about and it certainly has nothing to do with what you mentioned (multi channel switching, midi, reverb), because all of those are microprocessor controlled and can be added easily and relatively cheaply, once you have a microprocessor. It's not like we are talking analog circuits and extra component cost, wiring, etc. Oh and it's 1500€, at least in most of the EU online shops. I doubt I'll use the 4th channel anyway, as I found plenty of gain on OD1. Practically any high-gain amp will sound buzzy if you use too much gain. Just because the knob goes to 10 does not mean it will sound good there. If it's buzzy, back the gain down to a more reasonable level and it sounds fine.

So, in your opinion, what is a good multi channel high gain amp for hard rock and metal that has a decent clean channel for around 1500€?

[patricef]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'd have to disagree with most of what you wrote. I feel it's pretty versatile. Not on the level of a Vetta of course, but for an all-tube guitar amp it is pretty good. I don't see what your reference to price vs. quality is all about and it certainly has nothing to do with what you mentioned (multi channel switching, midi, reverb), because all of those are microprocessor controlled and can be added easily and relatively cheaply, once you have a microprocessor. It's not like we are talking analog circuits and extra component cost, wiring, etc. Oh and it's 1500€, at least in most of the EU online shops. I doubt I'll use the 4th channel anyway, as I found plenty of gain on OD1. Practically any high-gain amp will sound buzzy if you use too much gain. Just because the knob goes to 10 does not mean it will sound good there. If it's buzzy, back the gain down to a more reasonable level and it sounds fine.

So, in your opinion, what is a good multi channel high gain amp for hard rock and metal that has a decent clean channel for around 1500€?

For the price, I was wrong it's 1399€ (Thomann is the most famous online shop in Europe) http://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_jvm410h.htm
I didn't mean to say the an amp has to be expensive to be good, also because amps made in the US are more expensive to buy in Europe because of taxes (Mesa, Soldano). But when you have 4 channels + midi, there are more analog components (pots, buttons, switches, caps, switching relays...) that add up to the price. I understand a midi processor might be cheap, it still has a price tag, not only the chip, but development, programming, testing...Now look at this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_2203.htm
A Marshall 2203 costs 1625€ but it has 1 channel, 6 buttons, no midi, 1 loop...It should be much cheaper than the JVM, no ? It is because it has PTP wiring (much reliable than a PCB board, machine-soldered), better output transformers,...
In the same vein, there are plenty of mods (Keeley, Analogman) done on pedals to reduce the background noise, and it is always by changing the chip, caps and the resistors to use better quality ones (metal film,low noise OP Amp...). Why isn't Boss using those components in the first place ? Because on the volume sold, it saves a lot of money. Same for Marshall. The JVM is for the mass market, a 2203 is for afficionados.

About the JVM, if you like it and think it is versatile enough, I will not discuss your taste, I gave you mine. But I must point out that you said channel 4 is useless because OD1 has enough gain. I never said I pushed the gain to 10, actually the first test I made was all channels with all controls at 12 o'clock. If channel 4 is not usable when gain is on 5, then there something wrong with the design. On a good high gain amp, it should remain "musical" at this level an not buzzy.

Here's a list of amp heads. I cannot say much about clean channel because I almost never use a clean tone. For hard rock, I would exclude Fender (except the EVHIII), Orange, Vox, Hiwatt. For the rest you have to trust your ears...and your wallet.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_GF_tube_guitar_heads_PG_1.html

[cbope]

For the price, I was wrong it's 1399€ (Thomann is the most famous online shop in Europe) http://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_jvm410h.htm
I didn't mean to say the an amp has to be expensive to be good, also because amps made in the US are more expensive to buy in Europe because of taxes (Mesa, Soldano). But when you have 4 channels + midi, there are more analog components (pots, buttons, switches, caps, switching relays...) that add up to the price. I understand a midi processor might be cheap, it still has a price tag, not only the chip, but development, programming, testing...Now look at this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/marshall_2203.htm
A Marshall 2203 costs 1625€ but it has 1 channel, 6 buttons, no midi, 1 loop...It should be much cheaper than the JVM, no ? It is because it has PTP wiring (much reliable than a PCB board, machine-soldered), better output transformers,...
In the same vein, there are plenty of mods (Keeley, Analogman) done on pedals to reduce the background noise, and it is always by changing the chip, caps and the resistors to use better quality ones (metal film,low noise OP Amp...). Why isn't Boss using those components in the first place ? Because on the volume sold, it saves a lot of money. Same for Marshall. The JVM is for the mass market, a 2203 is for afficionados.

About the JVM, if you like it and think it is versatile enough, I will not discuss your taste, I gave you mine. But I must point out that you said channel 4 is useless because OD1 has enough gain. I never said I pushed the gain to 10, actually the first test I made was all channels with all controls at 12 o'clock. If channel 4 is not usable when gain is on 5, then there something wrong with the design. On a good high gain amp, it should remain "musical" at this level an not buzzy.

Here's a list of amp heads. I cannot say much about clean channel because I almost never use a clean tone. For hard rock, I would exclude Fender (except the EVHIII), Orange, Vox, Hiwatt. For the rest you have to trust your ears...and your wallet.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_GF_tube...eads_PG_1.html

Thanks for the constructive feedback, I didn't mean to come off harsh (now that I re-read my post, I think I was). To be honest, I love the 2203KK. But I'm stuck at it having only a single channel and the real possibility it's a one-trick pony and doesn't have a good clean. I haven't tried one though. Reliability of PCB vs. PTP isn't an issue for me; I'm not gigging, not regularly playing in a band and probably never will. For me music is my hobby and passion. I'd love to try the 5150III as everyone seems to be talking about them, but neither Thomann nor my local shops carry them. A dual Recto would be great, but I just can't justify another 1k€ over the price of a JVM or 800 over a JSX. I literally grew up on Marshall tone in the 70's and 80's so I am a bit biased for it I admit. For the features and price it's hard to find something to match the JVM. If it weren't for the few complaints about the mysterious mid spiky-ness or wah sound on some JSX's, I'd probably go for one, I think it's a great amp.