Tube vs. Non-tube - my assessment

[toejam]

I dig tube and solid state amps. One of my favorites at the moment is my Tech 21 Trademark 300 head... pure analog Fender, Marshall and Mesa sounds!

[Shawn Lutz]

damn joe, do youu happen to have an actual size photo of your amp? )

[toejam]

LOL No, that's actually a pic I found online and not the one I own. Tech 21 stuff sounds amazing! I've got their Tri-A.C. pedal, too.

[skorb]

I had a local GC worker rave about the Vetta to me, and then plugged in. Honestly, I was not at all impressed. Very sterile sounding, and I have owned my share of both tube and ss. The worst was watch Dave Navarro with his Vetta, TRYING to keep up with Raphael Moreira and his Bogner. Yikes.

1. please tell us more about this Navarro anecdote. he's one of my favorite players. I had no idea he played any time w/ a Vetta.

2. Vetta patches must be set up correctly to sound good. just walking in and turning on a Vetta in GC and expecting it to sound good will always disappoint. just like going to GC expecting to find every guitar set up just right. never going to happen. Vetta's can sound like shit if the user does not understand the amp controls.

you should hear my Vetta at gig volume with my already tweaked and perfected patches. it would totally change your mind about the amp.

again if all you need is crushing gain and midrange punch, get a tube amp. if you are needing to do many varying tones very well and sound very good over a wide range of different songs/effects with a simple to use stage setup, the Vetta is unbeatable.

[thetroy]

I loved the Soldano I used to have. I loved the Vetta I used to have. I like the Behringer V-Ampire I have. I like the Peavey ValveKing I have.

I only use at most 3-4 tones EVER so I prefer the tube stuff most of the time since it is simple (usually)

[Dreamland_Rebel]

i love the sound of many different amp and cab combinations. and i also enjoy walking into a gig with my XTL and Crate Powerblock over one shoulder, chord bag over the other, guitar in one hand, and asking the sound man whose cab am i gonna play through tonight. tweaked properly they can be great economical tone machines.

but in my cover band, i enjoy rokking classic metal hits with a marshall half cab.

[goodwood]

It's like last weekend my 14 year old son was asking why I liked analog tuners on a stereo better than digital. I said, because I can make the stereo "learn" and eventually lock into FM stations 120 miles away, where the digital would just blank it or get static. The digital would see 99.2, then 99.3, and no in between. The analog would find an "infinite" divisible value in between, controlled by my touch. At least it would see 99.201,99.202,99.203, etc. until it hit 99.3.

I don't know if you've ever been exposed to the debate about vinyl and cd...it is very closely related. Some of the key points that I recall from the subject are that the subconscious mind can recognize the minute details in an analog recording (picture a sine wave or something similar) and also recognize that the digital reproduction of music is actually like stairs going up and down like on graph paper...
analog ~
digital L
That's not the best illustration but yeah...digital is full of 90 degree corners and analog is smooth sonic reproduction.

My last word on modelers: once again, they are great for what they are but I have been around people who have tweaked them to no end and they still sound sterile to me.

[Bengal65]

I dig tube and solid state amps. One of my favorites at the moment is my Tech 21 Trademark 300 head... pure analog Fender, Marshall and Mesa sounds!

Need to see the picture again:ROTF: Damn, I didn't know they came out with a head. If it's as good sounding as my PSA-1 Sansamp, I may have to pick one up. Does the manual have any setup info to get the different amp sounds? Looks great!

[Bengal65]

I just checked their website. It say's "Sold Out", "Production cancelled till further notice". Huh, what's going on?

[toejam]

It does come with a manual for different sound settings. I also noticed they stopped production for now. I'm thinking they may be reworking it due to the fact that a lot of the reviews I've read on HC, people have been complaining about the effects loops. They're line level loops and like rack effects and not so much instrument level pedal effects.

[cbope]

Read this! ...and LEARN.
http://www.vacuumtubes.net/How_Vacuum_Tubes_Work.htm

No need, I have a degree in electronic engineering, I know how tubes work. My point was intended to be taken with a strong dose of sarcasm. As in the common saying that 1's and 0's (or signals processed in silicon) are not "natural" but somehow tubes are. When in fact there is nothing "natural" about a tube itself. I'm referring to the physical properties, not the sound it produces.

[data187]

Randall MTS rack setup. All tube, I can select which 4 preamps I want, and ON THE FLY select between two totally different power amp sections - 6L6s, EL34s, KT88s, KT90s, KT66s, 6V6s, etc. For me, the feel and tone with the MTS setup and a Gmajor are superior to the Vetta, an amp that I had for quite awhile and even defended on here a lot. The Vetta is nice, but there are tube rigs that can beat it. I still haven't heard a modelling amp do what the Trainwrecks and clones can do either.

Pete

i haven't played the mts, but i'll take your word on the sound.
however, the price of your setup is far more expensive than a vetta with the long board.

and yes, i've played a trainwreck and it does sound pretty amazing.

my argument is that the vetta is like 95% there on sound, but is more versatile(than most), cheaper to own and operate than a tube amp.

also, i love the trademark 300 amp. they had a combo that was discontiued that i really wanted to buy. i had a tm60 that didn't have enough gain for my taste and i heard the tm300 had even more gain.

i also owned the tri ac pedal, which is one of the best pedals ever made.

[Twisteramps]

i haven't played the mts, but i'll take your word on the sound.
however, the price of your setup is far more expensive than a vetta with the long board.

and yes, i've played a trainwreck and it does sound pretty amazing.

my argument is that the vetta is like 95% there on sound, but is more versatile(than most), cheaper to own and operate than a tube amp.

also, i love the trademark 300 amp. they had a combo that was discontiued that i really wanted to buy. i had a tm60 that didn't have enough gain for my taste and i heard the tm300 had even more gain.

i also owned the tri ac pedal, which is one of the best pedals ever made.

I didn't know we were qualifying this with price: If that's an issue, you could buy a Randall MTS100 head (three channel) with three modules, a G Major and a midi footboard used for fairly close to the cost of a Vetta II head and long board.

Regarding the Trainwreck and clones - the Vetta doesn't do 95% of the sound of one - it won't react at ALL like the 'wreck in tone or feel. Two totally different beasts. I really doubt modelling is going to be able to do it either, at least anytime soon.

Pete

[toejam]

also, i love the trademark 300 amp. they had a combo that was discontiued that i really wanted to buy. i had a tm60 that didn't have enough gain for my taste and i heard the tm300 had even more gain.

i also owned the tri ac pedal, which is one of the best pedals ever made.

I've never tried a TM60. I also heard that the TM300 had more gain, but it seems to be the same amount of gain as my Tri-AC. The only thing different about them (aside from the effects loops on the head) is that the frequency spectrum is a little different.
According to the manuals, the Tri-AC frequencies are... bass @ 125 Hz, mids @ 500 Hz and treble @ 3.5kHz.
The TM300 is... bass 200 Hz, mids 750 Hz and treble 3 kHz.

I wish they actually had a little bit more gain, but they take well to OD pedals. Music123 had a blow-out sale on the TM300 awhile back, so I got mine for like $600 and change. I noticed after that it was down to $400 something. Next time I checked, it was over $900, now it's at $819.99.

http://www.music123.com/Tech-21-Trademark-300-300W-3-Channel-Guitar-Amp-Head-with-Footswitch-480224-i1145284.Music123

[data187]

I didn't know we were qualifying this with price: If that's an issue, you could buy a Randall MTS100 head (three channel) with three modules, a G Major and a midi footboard used for fairly close to the cost of a Vetta II head and long board.

Regarding the Trainwreck and clones - the Vetta doesn't do 95% of the sound of one - it won't react at ALL like the 'wreck in tone or feel. Two totally different beasts. I really doubt modelling is going to be able to do it either, at least anytime soon.

Pete

i didn't mean the vetta does 95% of a trainwreck.
but the vetta does do the recto, solandos, marshalls, fenders, vox, etc. at 95%.


another issue i have with this comparison is that no one using a modeler amp tries to find their own sound. i think the vetta has tons of excellent tones that are very unique.