Rig Question

[JacksonDean]

I'm looking at the possibility of building a rig. Some type of pre-amp processor (PODxt, perhaps), a poweramp, perhaps an EQ, etc.

For the cab, I have Vintage 30s in mind.

Is there something else I need to keep say a 300watt Poweramp from blowing the speakers on a 260 watt cab?

I know very little about this (obviously), so a little help would be appreciated.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

man, there are just so many routs you can go.
you need to ask yourself a few questions first, like...

what is your budget?
how versitile of a rig are you looking for? / what types of tones are you looking for?
what kind of environments are you looking to play in?
what type of controls are you looking for.

lets start with that, ok?

[JacksonDean]

man, there are just so many routs you can go.
you need to ask yourself a few questions first, like...

what is your budget?
how versitile of a rig are you looking for? / what types of tones are you looking for?
what kind of environments are you looking to play in?
what type of controls are you looking for.

lets start with that, ok?

How about: all of that is irrelevant because the question I need to know the answer to is the one I asked.

Budget, versatility, etc are all things that I can figure out on my own.

What I don't know is what sort of equipment balances all of the odd specifications. I understand impedance is important to the whole she-bang, but I don't want to blow speakers. There's no point in looking at a piece of gear if it's not going to fit in with anything else.

The poweramp is the base of the rig, as I understand it... I want to push my 260w but not blow them.

[rjohnstone]

If you are worried about blowing your cab, you have only two choices.
Get a higher wattage cab or get a lower powered amp.
My question is, do you really need a 300 watt power amp?
Are you playing venues that don't have a PA?
Hell a 100 watt tube head cranked to 8 or 9 is plenty loud enough on it's own in most clubs.

[yabba]

How about: all of that is irrelevant because the question I need to know the answer to is the one I asked.

Budget, versatility, etc are all things that I can figure out on my own.

What I don't know is what sort of equipment balances all of the odd specifications. I understand impedance is important to the whole she-bang, but I don't want to blow speakers. There's no point in looking at a piece of gear if it's not going to fit in with anything else.

The poweramp is the base of the rig, as I understand it... I want to push my 260w but not blow them.

how loud are you planning on playing thourgh this rig?

if you turn your 300 watt power amp all the way through your 260 watt cab, you have a good chance of blowing the speakers. It will also be very loud. If you won't be turning it up that much, you might not blow them.

[JacksonDean]

Well, the majority of my confusion comes from a couple of different things that've been said by a couple of different sound guys I've talked to. One mentioned that you won't get the optimum performance out of your speakers if you're underpowering them. That makes sense...

I'm in the research phase of this thing, which I why I am asking now. I want to have an idea of what I will need so I can price and budget for it. Currently, I do not need one at all. So now is a good time to get my equipment issues worked out so that when I do need one, I will not have to scramble to get my gear. Call it an investment.

What's the best path to follow strictly from a hardware standpoint? I know I will buy or build a 4x12 cab with V30s. I already know I want those. The rest is all on the drawing board.

Edit:

how loud are you planning on playing thourgh this rig?

if you turn your 300 watt power amp all the way through your 260 watt cab, you have a good chance of blowing the speakers. It will also be very loud. If you won't be turning it up that much, you might not blow them.

This raises another question: I'm sure there is a piece of gear that I could work into the rig that monitors this, right? I wouldn't want to figure this out by trial and error! What is this called? Watt-meter?

[yabba]

Well, the majority of my confusion comes from a couple of different things that've been said by a couple of different sound guys I've talked to. One mentioned that you won't get the optimum performance out of your speakers if you're underpowering them. That makes sense...

that's not really true, in my experience. certainly you won't get optimum tone out of speakers that are REALLY underpowered, like running at 'tv/bedroom' volume, but it doesn't take too many watts run through a speaker to get it running efficiently and moving some real air. the wattage rating of speakers really doesn't tell you much about what the 'optimum' power of amp is needed to push them, it just tells you how much wattage they can take before they blow.

This raises another question: I'm sure there is a piece of gear that I could work into the rig that monitors this, right? I wouldn't want to figure this out by trial and error! What is this called? Watt-meter?

that sounds like something that probably does/should exist, but I've never seen one or heard of someone using one.

[JacksonDean]

Oh, and I'm not looking for handouts either, guys. If there is a site or two that could help bolster my understanding of all this stuff, I'd appreciate that too.

Dreamland rebel:

How about: all of that is irrelevant because the question I need to know the answer to is the one I asked. etc

Sorry about this, I reread it and it's much harsher than it was intended. I was at work and on the phone when I scribbled that response.

[Robert Burns]

Maybe a Mesa 50/50 stereo rack amp...out into a good Carvin or equivalent preamp, and then into a solid 4/12 Marshall or Peavey cab?
Used this rack set up might only cost you around $1300.00

[JacksonDean]

Maybe a Mesa 50/50 stereo rack amp...out into a good Carvin or equivalent preamp, and then into a solid 4/12 Marshall or Peavey cab?
Used this rack set up might only cost you around $1300.00

Yeah, that's the idea... and I am thinking used gear too, actually. I am not quite capable of driving an Aston Martin yet!

The Mesa 50/50 is a good one?

All the suggestions you guys want to give me, I'll look into! Thanks.

[scotty]

These are good to if you can find one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Marshall-9200-Dual-Monobloc-Power-Amp-6l6-5881-200watts_W0QQitemZ300166913299QQihZ020QQcategoryZ38075QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[JacksonDean]

These are good to if you can find one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Marshall-9200-Du...QQcmdZViewItem

Wow, that looks massive.

[Jonttu]

Wow, that looks massive.

It IS massive (3 units)! And the damn thing is pretty heavy also.
I have that poweramp and it really ROCKS!

[Inazone]

I have switched to a rack rig or rack/pedal rig for all of my gigging and recording, so I can make a couple of suggestions here. Your best bet for a power amp would be a stereo model that can be "bridged" to run in mono. Just about every power amp manufacturer has made these at some point. I use a Peavey Classic 50/50 bridged to 100 watts mono for gigging, and a Carvin Tube 100 (50W per side in stereo) for recording. Peavey no longer makes tube power amps, but Carvin has a newer version called the TS100. Although VHT gear is generally out of my price range, their power amps get a lot of good reviews, and I see them in use fairly often. There are of course the big names like Mesa and Marshall, and probably others.

For speakers, I have used a wide variety of Celestion, Eminence and Peavey, but lately have focused more on the actual cab in the interest of easier transportation. Four of my five current cabs are 2x12, and two of those four are vertical slanted cabs. For recording purposes, I find the Vintage 30s to be a bit too bright on their own, but I always like to have them around. If you put together a stereo setup, consider a pair of 2x12 cabs or a stereo cab with a mix of speakers.

Here is my recording rig. The tuner has an A/B switch built-in, which goes to the two preamps and (eventually) to the left and right inputs of the stereo power amp. From there, I either go to a stereo cab or two separate cabs:

[yard dawg]

Well, the majority of my confusion comes from a couple of different things that've been said by a couple of different sound guys I've talked to. One mentioned that you won't get the optimum performance out of your speakers if you're underpowering them. That makes sense...

I'm in the research phase of this thing, which I why I am asking now. I want to have an idea of what I will need so I can price and budget for it. Currently, I do not need one at all. So now is a good time to get my equipment issues worked out so that when I do need one, I will not have to scramble to get my gear. Call it an investment.

What's the best path to follow strictly from a hardware standpoint? I know I will buy or build a 4x12 cab with V30s. I already know I want those. The rest is all on the drawing board.

Edit:


This raises another question: I'm sure there is a piece of gear that I could work into the rig that monitors this, right? I wouldn't want to figure this out by trial and error! What is this called? Watt-meter?

Well try getting this set up and then tell the sound guys you know that youre ready to play there club. After all you were told you need maximum power output.

Go for a couple of EV cabs with 2 18" speakers
2 claire brothers sub cabs
4 or 5 QSC 2000 watt power amps and the pre amp of your choice.


But seriously man, there are too many pre amps to list. You can go to sweetwater.com or musiciansfriend.com and look around. Power amps are plentiful too. If you have a 260 watt cab then get a power amp that is rated for 260 watts or less. Louder is not always better. Ive mixed sound for people who were using mic'd 1x12's thru the PA and it sounded plenty loud enough.

Louder isnt better. Many times louder gets to sounding muddy because everyone in the band wants to hear themsleves and they say turn me up. The next guy says turn me up and so on and so on. Its a nightmare mixing for deaf musicians.