A new live rig for me???

[jgcable]

Most of you guys know me. I have been through every amp pretty much on the planet. My current live rig is a Vetta with stereo cabinets. I have been using it live, in the studio and at rehearsal for the last 18 months.
Not a hiccup, great reliable tone, set up is a breeze and it records really well. Its also extremely versatile. blah blah blah....

I want to go back to a traditional tube amp rig. I am thinking of a 2 amp rig with an amp switcher. What I want to use is a Marshall DSL100 for the high gain and crunch tones with a volume pedal and an old Rocktron original Intellifex in the loop and a Marshall JCM900 with a Digitech TSR24 in the loop for the clean tones. I want to control both amps with a channel switcher and pump them through 2 Marshall JCM800 cabs. I will throw a Morley Bad Horsie 2 out in front.

Basically.. I want to create a tone that I could call my own for our next recording instead of using a modeler that somebody else created. I would like it to be a little more gritty and personal. I am really digging the DSL100 and I have always been a huge fan of the JCM900 (although most people can't stand the 900 series)

For recording my band is going to use Protools, some various live amps and I was thinking about a Pod X3 bean which seems like a Vetta without the power section.

What do you guys thing??

[Twisteramps]

I still think you need to try a Randall MTS system. Might even abate your GAS a bit... since you can switch out the preamps and get your favorite combo of tones. Get the rackmount head and power amp, then you can run any two pair of octal tubes in the power section (KT88, KT90, EL34, KT66, 6L6, 5881, 6V6) and run a different pair in the other side. Then you can channel switch the power amp with the preamp, giving you *eight* different combinations of preamp and power amp.

If you're careful, you can get a setup for less than the setup you listed above... and you wouldn't need an amp switcher either!

Pete

[hippietim]

You can actually get by with just one cab if you want using one of these:

http://www.tonebone.com/tb-headbone-vt.htm

A JCM900 wouldn't be my first choice for a clean tone though. What about picking up an MTS or X100B again? Both of those had great clean channels.

[Shawn Lutz]

strip down to bare bones and go old school...JMP/JCM800 2203/04 and use one for dirt and one for clean using the low input hell witht he loop

[Rupe]

I would strongly recommend that you check out a Fender Tone Master. They are no longer made but can be scored for a decent price, especially considering that they are a modern hand-wired amp.

The clean channel is like a Twin on steroids...not quite as sweet sounding but more punchy and in your face. The dirty channel can take you anywhere from overdriven blues to a fat, heavy rhythm, to a ripping lead tone. I would run a compressor into the front end for searing leads...it was like a third channel. Although it certainly has its own thing going, its closest that I ever came to the VHII "brown sound" (with the possible exception of the new 5150 III). I'm actually looking to reacquire one myself.

I also agree with Tim in that the 900 is not the best choice for a clean tone...very flat sounding. Also, as a former Marshall dealer, I would estimate that I saw one in four of the DSL/TSL Marshalls come back for service.

[horns666]

I heard the Randall MTS when I hooked up with Ace at Edguy/Firewind/Into Eternity amoung other bands. Gus G was using one. It ate the Engl Powerballs, Madisons and Marshall 2203 that night anywhoo.

Best tone of the night!!

[atilla]

I heard the Randall MTS when I hooked up with Ace at Edguy/Firewind/Into Eternity amoung other bands. Gus G was using one. It ate the Engl Powerballs, Madisons and Marshall 2203 that night anywhoo.

Best tone of the night!!

Horns, can you match the amps to the bands for us? Just curious...(I'm guessing Edguy had the 2203s...)

[scotty]

I didnt know Gus G was using Randall. I checked Randall's artist page and they do have Firewind listed. I like my RM100 not as fancy as the the 4 module rackmount version. These amps are great and are very versatile all the down to being able to mix and match tubes and you bias them yourself.

[chrisolson]

Basically.. I want to create a tone that I could call my own for our next recording instead of using a modeler that somebody else created.

For recording my band is going to use Protools, some various live amps and I was thinking about a Pod X3 bean which seems like a Vetta without the power section.

What do you guys thing??

Take this with all sincerity - I'm not criticizing you by any means...

I think if you're playing through a Vetta (or anything else) with tones YOU create, it is YOUR sound. I also think you're nuts - you're taking a step BACK IMHO. If you plan on recording with a POD X3, what has really changed?

By your logic, the only way you could have "your own" sound is if you built an amp with your own hands, using no one else's schematics, etc. If you're playing a JCM800, you're still playing through someone else's amp. You're playing Jim Marshall's amp.

In a nutshell, a JCM800 model or REAL JCM800 - it really doesn't matter as long as you've created the "sound", you know? With that said, you've been with that setup a LONG time (for you... ), and I totally get the "stagnation" thing. The thought that there "must be something else out there" that will be more inspiring.

Good luck in that quest. I'd still keep your Vetta though.

[horns666]

Horns, can you match the amps to the bands for us? Just curious...(I'm guessing Edguy had the 2203s...)

Yes and Scotty too..

Edguy used what apeared to be two JCM 800 2203s..and that's excatly what they sounded like...nice, defined "Marshall" tone, not too much bottom end of course...they're old Marshalls.

Into Eternity used Madison amps...they sounded pretty decent, they lead player is very good.

Gus G used a Randall MTS when I saw him and he sounded fantastic..his tone and playing was killer!!!
A friend saw him at Progpower not long after that and Gus S played a 6505 (5150).

I was not impressed with the Engls whatsoever..very dark and muddy sounding to my ears. Both had a nice bottom end, but I didn't care for the tone at all. I stood in front of both half stacks at ear level during sound check. Both Echoes Of Eternity (cool band, hot singer that likes Ace ), and Light this City both used Engls..if my memory is right...I know EOE certainly did.

It was a nice mix of players and amps.

The Randall sounded best

The Marshall were second because that tone is imbedded in my soul.

Madisons were third..interestingly enough.

All Engls..sounded bleh that night...could have fooled me for a solid state tone...honestly.

[horns666]

Keep in mind alot of "tone" is in any players hands...IMO!

My thoughts on those amps I mentioned could be completely different if I dialed and played them...except the Marshalls..I KNOW what those are about!!!

[jgcable]

Take this with all sincerity - I'm not criticizing you by any means...

I think if you're playing through a Vetta (or anything else) with tones YOU create, it is YOUR sound. I also think you're nuts - you're taking a step BACK IMHO. If you plan on recording with a POD X3, what has really changed?

By your logic, the only way you could have "your own" sound is if you built an amp with your own hands, using no one else's schematics, etc. If you're playing a JCM800, you're still playing through someone else's amp. You're playing Jim Marshall's amp.

In a nutshell, a JCM800 model or REAL JCM800 - it really doesn't matter as long as you've created the "sound", you know? With that said, you've been with that setup a LONG time (for you... ), and I totally get the "stagnation" thing. The thought that there "must be something else out there" that will be more inspiring.

Good luck in that quest. I'd still keep your Vetta though.

I hear you Chris. Its probably a stagnation thing. We played with 2 bands a few weeks ago that got me to thinking I need to change my rig. One band the guitarist was using a Engl Pitbull into a Engl 4 x 12 cab. He had all vintage stomp boxes and was using a Collectors Strat with stacked single coils. His overall tone was outstanding. The other bands guitarist was using a Line 6 Spyder 2 head into that same Engl 4 x 12 cab. He also had really nice tone but nothing even close to the Engl. One of the people in the club mentioned that they thought that the Spyder sounded similar to my Vetta. I agree. It did. It was similar. It sounded like a studio recording of a live guitarist. It was perfect but it did sound like the radio.
The Engl rig sounded like a live guitar player. Granted.. he was playing alot louder than I was when we did our set.. but he still had that quality live guitar tone.
I sort of miss that in your face raw live tone. Don't forget...up until modeling first surfaced I always used old school gear. Hiwatt, Marshall, Mesa, and traditional stomp boxes. I think some of the best tones I ever had live came from a Mesa Mark III purple stripe head and from a Hiwatt 120w head into 2 red Marshall 1960 cabs with a MXR Distortion +, a Phase 90 and an old analog delay pedal. All out in front! The Hiwatt didn't have a loop.
My favorite clean tone has always been the JCM900. It has a totally distinct early 90's metal clean sound to it. Sounds to me like When the Smoke is Going Down by The Scorpions. I am also totally digging the DSL100. Its very versatile and I think it has a real quality sound all around.
Anyway.... I'm thinking about it but I haven't decided what to do yet. The one thing I do know is that my new rig will be all Marshall.

[thetroy]

I'm with you. I'll be in a position to buy something relatively nice soon and can't decide between a simple head and a few pedals or a midi-controlled rack system. Every day or two I change my mind about what amp setup I will buy.

Currently I'm thinking Randall RM4-based rack setup but tomorrow I might want a single-channel Soldano Avenger.

[jgcable]

I really feel like I need to go back to an old school rig. Part of it is just for my own head.
I can't imagine that a multi-amp set up with a JCM900 and a DSL100 won't sound great. I would gig with the DSL100 alone. I think its that good.
An original Rocktron Intellifex will also add to the "old school" vibe.

[jgcable]

Keep in mind alot of "tone" is in any players hands...IMO!

My thoughts on those amps I mentioned could be completely different if I dialed and played them...except the Marshalls..I KNOW what those are about!!!

I hear what you are saying Bill. I.. for one.. seem to play better when I am playing through a Marshall. Can't explain why though. Even on my Vetta.. I almost always use Marshall amp models. JCM2000's, 800's 900's and the old Plexi with a tube screamer kicking it in the teeth.
I don't go for the scooped tones. I like alot of midrange to the point of it almost sounding bad by itself. In a live band setting though it sounds great.