tube power amps

[emperor_black]

Its the consensus that for an all-tube amp to sound good, it must be cranked up. essentially, the power amp tubes must be working hard enough for the amp to sound overall good.

but what's the case with tube power amps? Do they need to be cranked up too? Assuming I'm using a SS preamp like the GT-8 and connect it to a tube power amp, can I still get great tone at bedroom levels?

[shreder13]

They sound best when cranked but with a ss pre you can get so good tone at bedroom level depending on its wattage. (50 watt can pull of bedroon playing, 100 watts okay, anything more:ROTF: good luck to you)

ps You can always use only one side of the poweramp if its stereo

[DonP]

If you have the SS preamp set up for creating the bulk of your distortion, and have a powerful power amp (>= 15 watts) you aren't getting tube power amp distortion.

But if you have the SS preamp set fairly clean, and have a low watt power amp (5 watts), yes, you can crank the power amp to get power amp distortion at bedroom levels.

Basically, if you want power amp distortion at bedroom levels, you need to look for something like an old 5 watt Champ with a single 6V6 power tube. I solved this problem by making my own amp. I ripped the guts out of a Gorilla and stuff it with a Marshall 2203 preamp and a 3 watt power amp (50C5 and 35W4). I can crank it up to 10 and get a nice early Def Leppard tone without it being extremely loud, but it is still loud. It sounds good thru a Vintage 10 Celestion, or thru a 4x12 loaded with G12-75s.

[Cygnus X1]

If you have the SS preamp set up for creating the bulk of your distortion, and have a powerful power amp (>= 15 watts) you aren't getting tube power amp distortion.

But if you have the SS preamp set fairly clean, and have a low watt power amp (5 watts), yes, you can crank the power amp to get power amp distortion at bedroom levels.

Basically, if you want power amp distortion at bedroom levels, you need to look for something like an old 5 watt Champ with a single 6V6 power tube. I solved this problem by making my own amp. I ripped the guts out of a Gorilla and stuff it with a Marshall 2203 preamp and a 3 watt power amp (50C5 and 35W4). I can crank it up to 10 and get a nice early Def Leppard tone without it being extremely loud, but it is still loud. It sounds good thru a Vintage 10 Celestion, or thru a 4x12 loaded with G12-75s.

Yikes. Got pix of this project? I'm thinking of doing something similar...

And, +1 on the power distortion. A 22 watt Deluxe just about rips your head off before you get real distortion, at bedroom level. Even a champ can get pretty loud, at 5 watts. I use an isolation cab, and other doodads to bring the volume down, while driving the power amp hard. All the rest is preamp distortion.

[marcus]

Where to go here will depend on what kind of tone you are looking for. If you want really heavy, super clipped, metal distortion you are really looking for preamp distortion, not poweramp distortion. Poweramp distortion doesn't rely as heavily on clipping the tubes as most high-gain preamp configurations. A good deal of what is called poweramp distortion comes from saturating the transformer in addition to clipping. It doesn't sound as heavy. More bluesy, or hard rock distortion like the Def Leppard tone DonP mentioned. Experiment and see what you like best. You can actually get a pretty good metal tone by using a high-gain tube preamp, and using a SS power amp. It may even sound better at low volumes than using all tubes, but I am just guessing here, I have never used a rig set up like this. Let us know what you come up with.

[emperor_black]

Thanks for all the replies. I just want something that can reproduce the sound that I am hearing through headphones louder. I dont want any clipping or any saturation from the power amp.

At present, I am plugging in the GT-8's line out to the back of a Crate powerblock. Its pretty good, but if I wish to increase the volume, I have to turn the knob at the back of the gt-8. I dont want to do that. I wish I could turn up the vol of the crate PB or some other power amp instead.

[Ace]

If you just want to play through a preamp at bedroom/home studio studio levels, especially if you are playing "metal", go with a soild state preamp. It will sound the most like what you are hearing in your headphones. It will also be much less expenesive, more reliable, and more transparent. For a very decent price you can get a stereo solid state power amp and use your GT-8 to it's full potential, provided you have two speaker cabinets, or at least a stereo cabinet.

[marcus]

If you just want to play through a preamp at bedroom/home studio studio levels, especially if you are playing "metal", go with a soild state preamp. It will sound the most like what you are hearing in your headphones. It will also be much less expenesive, more reliable, and more transparent. For a very decent price you can get a stereo solid state power amp and use your GT-8 to it's full potential, provided you have two speaker cabinets, or at least a stereo cabinet.

+1. If you don't want power amp distortion, I see no reason to go with a tube amp.

[Rupe]

+1. If you don't want power amp distortion, I see no reason to go with a tube amp.

You don't need to overdrive the power tubes to benefit from a tube power amp. Even at low volumes, my Mesa 2:90 sounds much warmer and bigger than any solid state power amps that I've ever used (QSC, Crown). Solid State amps have an inherent harshness to it that good tube amps don't have.

[marcus]

You don't need to overdrive the power tubes to benefit from a tube power amp. Even at low volumes, my Mesa 2:90 sounds much warmer and bigger than any solid state power amps that I've ever used (QSC, Crown). Solid State amps have an inherent harshness to it that good tube amps don't have.

What is generally described as "warmth" in tube amps is actually really distortion. You don't have to drive tubes into clipping for them to distort, they do it naturally at all signal levels. Transistors inject much smaller levels of distortion than tubes up until the point of clipping. As for harshness, this is not something that is inherent to solid state amps. Certainly a lot of cheap-ass SS amps are harsh, but this is true of cheap tube amps as well. Good SS state amps are anything but harsh, though. By all means, if you want "warmth" get a tube amp. I was under the impression that this was not what EB was after, though, so I apologize if I was wrong.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Thanks for all the replies. I just want something that can reproduce the sound that I am hearing through headphones louder. I dont want any clipping or any saturation from the power amp.

At present, I am plugging in the GT-8's line out to the back of a Crate powerblock. Its pretty good, but if I wish to increase the volume, I have to turn the knob at the back of the gt-8. I dont want to do that. I wish I could turn up the vol of the crate PB or some other power amp instead.

you know you can plug into the front of the PB and with all the knobs at 12 O'clock. is a flat neutral sound. then you can just use the volume knob of the PB and the gain knob if you want to add some kick.

i used to run my XTL like this, but have since changed to the FX return and just use the controls on the XTL.

[Spivonious]

What you're looking for is an amp with a lot of head room. Look for high wattages. Remember: wattage != volume

What about a nice PA system?

[emperor_black]

By all means, if you want "warmth" get a tube amp. I was under the impression that this was not what EB was after, though, so I apologize if I was wrong.

well, I want to try out a tube power amp. I have found out ways to dial out the inherent SS harshness from the GT-8 to a point where I think I am very satisfied. So, yes, I AM looking for the inherent power amp warmth from the power amp side.

Even at low volumes, my Mesa 2:90 sounds much warmer and bigger than any solid state power amps that I've ever used (QSC, Crown).

that was the impression I had. Tube PA's should sound better than SS PA's. but all of a sudden I got the doubt that maybe they too need to be cranked up to open the warmth door.

you know you can plug into the front of the PB and with all the knobs at 12 O'clock. is a flat neutral sound. then you can just use the volume knob of the PB and the gain knob if you want to add some kick.

i used to run my XTL like this, but have since changed to the FX return and just use the controls on the XTL.

But this would become a mono setup. I have tried it. it does sound good. but somehow I feel the preamp of the PB tends to "introduce" the SS harshness that I dont get from the GT-8 alone.

What's more, instead of using two guitar cables and connecting the L/R outs of the GT-8 into the L/R of the PB, I found that it sounds more transparent when I send the headphone out of the GT-8 into the aux in of the PB. Its a whole world of difference. But in both cases the overall vol of the setup is determined by the lil black knob behind the GT-8.

[Robert Burns]

Its the consensus that for an all-tube amp to sound good, it must be cranked up. essentially, the power amp tubes must be working hard enough for the amp to sound overall good.

but what's the case with tube power amps? Do they need to be cranked up too? Assuming I'm using a SS preamp like the GT-8 and connect it to a tube power amp, can I still get great tone at bedroom levels?

******* I used to think so..(my DSL 2000 needed to be up quite high
in the bedroom to sound good. Now with my VHT 2/90/2, i have 50%
MORE balls..100% more harmonics, at roughly 1/2 the volume. Yesterday
the wife was gone, so i went ahead and turned it up to about 7 and
saw "God"! It was sickening...it sounded so awesome! Some amps,
are fantastic at bedroom volumes, and imo VHT's are.

[Cleveland Metal]

Good post Robert... Glad you're still diggin the VHT... The do rule...