i think the framus might have to go...

[Fragle]

ok, this is going to be somewhat longish....forgive me
lazy people just skip to the bottom....


as of right now, i own a framus cobra (main gigging amp), peavey 5150, marshall jcm800 2210, and a line6 hd147....first things first, the 5150 is gonna stay no matter what i originally wanted to sell the marshall and the line 6 for quite some time now, but *strangely* it hasn't happened as of right now...wonder why the line 6 is nice for bedroom jamming, and sounds very good for that. i also LOVE the built in fx...would be my be all end all live amp, if it held up against my other guitar players powerball...unfortunately, it doesn't. gotta crank it way up which isn't a good thing when playing a solid state amp...it's losing its sound and get's rather unpleasant at those volumes.
the marshall however...see below.

ok, having that said, i think the framus might have to go. why? volume. seems like my other guitar player *finally* learned to tweak his powerball right, and boy, it shows. his sound is CRUSHING. super heavy, super loud, super articulate, super cutting. i used to be the first to bash engl amps in general, but what i've been hearing for the last couple of gigs and rehearsals is just killer.
to make a long story short, the framus doesn't hold a candle against that wall of sound. the thing is, there's two modes on the framus...notch, and un-notched. the un-notched sound is *very* midrangey, almost honkey, but there's still a good amount of treble and bass when playing alone, so it actually sounds pretty good despite of the overwhelming mids. unfortunately, all the treble and bass gets swallowed up by the powerball, leaving me with just the honky midrange...cutting? yes. does it sound good in the mix? hell no! the notched setting however sounds pretty good...it's basically a drastic mid scoop, making it *somewhat* comparable to a rectifier. while the mix of the PB and the notched cobra sounds pretty good, there's just not enough volume available. my dude has his PB master on 10 o'clock, MAX, whereas i have the channel volumes DIMED and the master way past NOON to get anywhere near the same volume. basically, we're talking full volume here. yet i'm still barely heared...and it's not the settings, as i'm running a rather midrangey sound despite of the scooped mode.
that, and some footswitch problems i've been experiencing lately make me wonder about a different amp.
i'm gonna try the marshall at next rehearsal, but i'm unsure....yes, it cuts through like mad, yes, it's heavy enough (used to play thrash metal with that head, now it's more like modern melodic metal), but i think i'll be experiencing problems with getting my leads heared as there is no volume boost available, as well as getting the clean sounds loud enough...i need a decent, loud, clean channel - which is the very reason why i'm not using the 5150 as my main amp

alright, having that said....those are the amps i'm currently interested in:
-peavey jsx: decent clean, ripping ultra channel for rhythms, apparently there's a mid spike which should make it cut through nicely. i'd have to run the crunch channel with a boost for leads though, and i don't know if there'll be enough gain for that...enough gain=marshall 2210 gain dimed with a slight boost. i could deal with mere 2210 levels w/o the boost but that's really the very least.
-krank revolution: don't laugh...i've been hearing countless clips as well as youtube videos, and judging by that i'd love this head...kinda like a scooped version of my 2210 with more balls. also love the 2 master volumes. gotta try one soon...
-engl...now it's getting interesting i'm mainly looking at the savage and invader models here. the invader is a bit too expensive actually, but my other guitar player keeps on raving about it, so...as for the savage, well, got to try one...might be a tad too midrangey for me. moreover, i don't need so many features...maybe i should give the blackmore a second chance?
-mesa single rectifier/rect-o-verb. affordable, for a mesa...i've never owned a rectifier, but still got the urge to do so at one point in my life i wonder if it could hang with the powerball? as for the features, it's perfect. 2 channels, footswitchable volume boost...i'd probably use an OD boost for leads, too.
-marshall 6100...seems like this one takes the 2210 sound but adds a decent clean channel and a dedicated lead channel - the things i'm worried about regarding the 2210. not too expensive either, but i've heared some bad things regarding reliability
-marshall tsl....used a dsl100 for about 20 shows back in 2005, but back then i didn't worry about clean or lead sounds. i DID however like the rhyhtm sound, although that's a long time ago really. the other guitar player in my old band is still using the TSL, and i doesn't sound too bad, really. very nice features, too. plus it's fairly cheap and easy to buy/sell over here...i might try this one just for shits and giggles, and see if it keeps up with the powerball.

yes, that's a lot of stuff i'm considering right now...i'm going to check out at least the krank and the jsx next week or so.
as for the pricing, the savage, rectifier, blackmore, tsl, and the 6100 i could afford by just selling the cobra (actually i guess i could get TWO 6100 for my cobra lol). jsx is quite rare used, but should be in the same pricerange. the krank and invader are more expensive...both around 1500 euro. i might have to sell two amps, cobra plus the line6 or the marshall, in order to get one of these. the problem is the lack of availabilty on ebay and the likes...i'd have to buy a new one, which also means that i'd loose quite a lot of money if i sold it just a few months later....

so, well, sorry for the novel

here's the short short version: cobra doesn't cut it anymore, need a new amp. problem is a lack of volume in the scooped setting or a bad mix (all mids, no highs/lows) in the regular setting.
new amp needs a decent clean channel, either two master volumes or three dedicated gain channels for rhythm/lead. style of music is modern melodic metal (i think).


any sort of input will be greatly appreciated thanks in advance

[lerxstcat]

Are there factors other than his guitar that might figure into it, like active pickups or boosts that he uses? Also, what tubes does the Framus use, 6L6s? Can't you use KT66s and get more power than regular 6L6s? Maybe check with someone like Pete about that, there might be some mod you have to do to make it safe.

My point is, it could get rather expensive to go into this randomly trying to find an amp that you like in all sound modes and is loud enough to keep up. also, the other guitarist is the senior member, right? Maybe the band is happy with you being secondary in the mix? A factor to consider.

Does the Framus have a line out? If so you could buy a used SVT head and a couple more 412 cabs and slave the Cobra into that. I doubt he'd still be louder then....

Or, you could simply get a Powerball if all other things are equal..

[atilla]

Or, you could simply get a Powerball if all other things are equal..

Now, I've heard that sometimes two-guitar bands can get to sounding really muddy playing through similar rigs. I've mostly heard of/heard this phenomenon with bands using Boogies, but I suppose it could happen with others. Just something to think about.

Liked the other suggestions, though. Try tweaking a few things here and there and see what happens!

[Cygnus X1]

+1, lex...
I was thinking if he likes the tone of the Framus so much,
then get a power amp do boost it and don't push the framus so hard.

I have a Fender Deluxe reverb that's too loud for the garage at times, and too soft
for gigging. I rigged a line out to help in both situations. Gigging, I hook it up to a power amp, and it sounds great.

[VitaminG]

an EQ in the loop won't give you the boost you need to solo?

[Fragle]

"an EQ in the loop won't give you the boost you need to solo?"
you're talking about the 2210, right? well, technically it would, but i already tried that using a ge-7 in the marshall's loop...didn't quite like it. the faders seem a bit prone to accidental adjustments in a live situation, plus it added a lot of noise. maybe a volume pedal with a minimum volume level setting (rhythm, leads would be full on on the pedal) could also do the job?

"Are there factors other than his guitar that might figure into it, like active pickups or boosts that he uses? "
no, nothing. my guitar is a tad brighter whereas his is more bottom heavy, but nothing out of the ordinary. plus, for rhythm we're both running dry and straight into the amp, no boosts or whatever. he's using a rack fx unit for leads in conjunction with the engl's second master volume, but i doubt that this could be an issue. plus, my lead sounds are usually heared quite well (given the master is high enough). it's mainly the rhythm sound that i'm having trouble with...

"Also, what tubes does the Framus use, 6L6s? Can't you use KT66s and get more power than regular 6L6s? "
EL34 tubes...but then again, would changing the powertubes significantly alter the overall voicing of the amp in a way that it blends better with the PB?

"also, the other guitarist is the senior member, right? Maybe the band is happy with you being secondary in the mix?"
definitely not the case, but a good point nevertheless. yes, he's the senior member, but well...let's just say they're all very happy that i'm playing in this band i'm also doing slightly more than 50% of the old leads (which were originally all done by him, with a few exceptions) plus all but one lead on the newest album, so....

"My point is, it could get rather expensive to go into this randomly trying to find an amp that you like in all sound modes and is loud enough to keep up"
good point there...although randomly isn't exactly the fitting term.
i guess the problem is that the framus is very low-mid centered, so the general rule more mids=more cut doesn't apply...the mid control rather acts as a second bass control, determining the body and fullness of the tone instead of the cut.
hence i'd like to try a more high-mid centered amp...

another possible route would be to use the 5150 for lead and rhythm playing, and build a rack based around a pod pro or something similar for clean stuff....kinda similar to in flames' guitar setup. obviously that would save some $$ as opposed to buying a whole other amp...the downside is that the actual setup in a live situation will take more time, plus i'd like to stay away from too complicated rigs...i'm more of a bare bones guy. as i mentioned above, either 2 channels clean/dirty with 2 master volumes (second master and an OD in front for leads), or 3 independent channels clean/rhythm/lead would do the job just fine...the problem with the last option ist that most 3 channel heads seem to have a crunch channel tailored to mid-gain stuff without enough gain and balls for heavy rhythm playing...

[madryan]

A JSX won't work for you. It's just not loud enough. I had one and that was actually a nice feature, as my Dual Rec running on "Spongy" with 2 power tubes pulled was still a whole bunch louder, and as such was too loud.


I vote a Mesa Stiletto Trident. 150w and voiced like a big thick Marshall. I've found that every Mesa I've owned has been incredibly loud. My DC-5 from way back would have a 100w Marshall cringing in the corner peeing on it-self and it was only 50w.

I had a VHT for a while and it was incredibly loud as well.

ETA: I'd also look into a rack setup with a nice pre like the Egnater or Randall 4 channel jobs and a VHT 2150 power amp. It'd be heavy, but it'd all fit in one rack, and you can pick which preamp modules you can use, as well as having your effects built right in. Also, something like a G-Major in the loop of any amp can act as a boost.

[yard dawg]

If you have local studios check to see if they will rent you a few different amps to try out before you buy. Cartage companies usually offer rentals too. Im not sure if they have those in your part of the world though

[Fragle]

mh...stiletto. very expensive (2k-ish) new, and hard to find used, but now that you mention it i'd like to try one anyway...

[shadowcat]

When I read your first post my initial idea was: get a Boss GT of some sort and run it 4-cable into your 5150, will give you all the versatility you need (and great cleans when bypassing the preamp), plus fits really well with the Powerball in a band setting. We played a gig with a band (forgot the name) with their guitarists running a Powerball and 5150. Worked great for the mix, the 5150 punches right through the wall the Powerball creates.

However it does indeed take more time to setup. I can do it pretty fast nowadays, but 4 cables are 4 cables, and if I could avoid it I would. There's just no other way to get the versatility I need except for building an entire rack from scratch.

[VitaminG]

"an EQ in the loop won't give you the boost you need to solo?"
you're talking about the 2210, right? well, technically it would, but i already tried that using a ge-7 in the marshall's loop...didn't quite like it. the faders seem a bit prone to accidental adjustments in a live situation, plus it added a lot of noise. maybe a volume pedal with a minimum volume level setting (rhythm, leads would be full on on the pedal) could also do the job?

I was actually thinking of it with the Framus. It sounds like you're pretty happy, rhythm-wise. I thought, if you could pump up a couple of frequencies when you turn on the EQ, it might help you cut through better for leads.

alternatively, how about some kind of clean boost, so you aren't inadvertently moving sliders?

of course, this is all conjecture on my part. I've never been in the situation where I've been running an amp WIDE open and needing more volume.

[Fragle]

well, the leads cut through just fine. it's the rhythm sound that - while it sounds great without the band, or let's say without the other guitar player - doesn't blend well with the PB but rather get's swallowed by it.

shadowcat, you got a point there...the 5150 does indeed blend well with the powerball. i've used it a few times for rehearsals, where having a decent clean sound is not *that* important, and i cut through much better (plus that's what we used for recording rhythm guitars on the latest album). the framus still got the edge as far as clarity and articulation goes, but what's clarity if you're not heared?

one question, regarding the single rectifier. would this one even be an option or would i likely experience similar problems? after all we're talking 50 vs 100 (cobra) watts here...also, the notched cobra sounds *similar* to a rectifier, meaning that it's scooped and low mid centered...while it does sound pretty good, the volume and/or the cut just isn't there...would this also be the case with the rectifier's modern mode?

[data187]

how about having your other guitar player turn it down a bit...lol

[skorb]

However it does indeed take more time to setup. I can do it pretty fast nowadays, but 4 cables are 4 cables, and if I could avoid it I would. There's just no other way to get the versatility I need except for building an entire rack from scratch.

I find that my 4 cable GT-8 setup takes very little time to set up. hell, it's plugging two more cables in (4 jacks) and that's it.

[thenine]

get an Uberschall and build a bigger wall!!!